Gay rights protestors block Stanford road Elections, posted by Editor, Mountain View Voice Online, on May 26, 2009 at 1:59 pm
A coalition of gay rights advocates protesting today's state Supreme Court ruling upholding Proposition 8 announced a civil-disobedience sit-in aimed at blocking Stanford University's key Palm Drive/Campus Drive intersection.
Read the full story here Web Link posted Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 1:40 PM
Posted by Peter, a resident of the Old Mountain View neighborhood, on May 26, 2009 at 3:31 pm
I do not understand how the Court upheld the constitutional amendment stating that marriage is between a man and a woman while also upholding the 18,000 gay marriages;oxymoronic. Reminds me of the Supreme Courts shameful decision "Plessey v. Ferguson," i.e., separate but equal, or rather, separate and unequal.
Posted by USA, a resident of the Old Mountain View neighborhood, on May 26, 2009 at 3:50 pm USA is a member (registered user) of Mountain View Online
It's a shame that people act that way.
Like president Obama, the vast majority of Californians support traditional marriage. 52% are even will to go so far as to amend the California constitution to support traditional marriage. Even the courts in California uphold traditional marriage. Yet, a handful of people who lost yet another election, act childishly and block traffic because they didn't get their way. Whaaaa.
Posted by JoAnn, a resident of the Sylvan Park neighborhood, on May 26, 2009 at 4:20 pm
For those of you who think that passing a bill to DENY people equal rights will stand closer scrutiny in the US Supreme court, you are sadly mistaken. You cannot give a majority of the UNinformed public, with their many biases -both learned and inbred, the ability to determine others' rights. It is NOT democratic.
What if we voted to not allow people over 40 to marry, because they cannot procreate? what if we disallowed people who had no desire to procreate from marrying? The same folks who think it is ok to deny gay people the right to marry ("because marriage is for a man and woman to join to procreate ") would be up in arms!!! The populous will NEVER be unbiased enough to vote on legislating rights for others, especially if they feel it does not include themselves. And, you should never vote to discriminate against individuals, it should not even be up for a vote by the public at large.
Deny one person their basic human rights, you deny ALL their rights!
Posted by eric, a resident of another community, on May 26, 2009 at 4:55 pm
I find your post dissapointing, though not because of your clear opposition to gay marriage.
-The protest at Stanford was very low key. Peaceful political protest is in the best tradition of our country, and an important implementation of our guaranteed right of free speech. I personally draw a line between hateful vitriolic mobs (plenty of examples from every part of the political spectrum; no need to enumerate) and a benign action like that seen today.
- "like president Obama, the vast majority of Californians...". Canned right-wing phrase of the day, well below your intellectual bar. Like many politicians, Obama chose to dodge this issue with an unfortunate bogus denial of his obvious support-or at least lack of disapproval- for gay marriage.
- The courts did not uphold "traditional marriage". They shot down a weak technical challenge to the validity of Prop 8. One could argue that to a degree (an inadequate one) they upheld gay marriage by declaring the 18,000 existing couples to still be married.
-Pure majority rule is not democracy, but mob rule (tyranny of the majority and all that). Prop 8 is the assertion of the will of the collective over the individual-- that aint democracy.
Banning gay marriage is to deny a group of people their rights. I have yet to have anyone explain to me how the marriage of a gay couple harm mine or anyone else's marriage.
Posted by curious, a resident of the Cuesta Park neighborhood, on May 26, 2009 at 5:12 pm
This mob blocking roads and others who have targeted churches and individuals who supported Prop. 8 shows the violent, fascistic side of the Left. They support political rights only for those who agree with them.
President Obama does oppose so-called homosexual marriage. As do the vast majority of Americans. Saying it is a talking point does not make the statements false. Your dismissal is a talking point.
Homosexual marriage has never approved by voters in any state. It has been forced upon people by judicial tyrants just like the CA Supremes tried to. CA is lucky to have the initiative process so we can undo this tyranny. Maybe the US Supremes will try to pull this off too but I doubt it. Judges are politicians too and they can read polls like anyone else.
CA Supremes also have to come before the voters periodically. Two of the four that tried to force this down our throats will come up in 2010. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
Posted by USA, a resident of the Old Mountain View neighborhood, on May 26, 2009 at 5:23 pm USA is a member (registered user) of Mountain View Online
Eric -- That's good. We were starting to agree on too many things. I was getting worried.
- While the protests at Stanford are more low key than say Oakland, blocking traffic never won any converts. That's just drives people away.
- The pro gay marriage folks have tried to paint their opponents as a small group of political and religious extremists. The reality is that the substantial majority of centrists support traditional marriage. The Mormons just provided a convenient targets for the liberal blogger talk points.
- Yes, the court cases are often decided by side issues. There was the weak argument about marriage-for-procreation from the Yes on 8 folks and now the weak legal challenge from the No on 8 folks.
- yeah, democracy sucks when you don't get your way. Let me tell you about last November ...
Gay marriage is not a right to begin with, but that's a topic for another post.
Posted by Steve, a resident of the Cuernavaca neighborhood, on May 26, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Big shocker for you I guess, but most people are inbred to believe that homosexuality and gay marriage go against the natural order of things. You just can't spin basic biology and the survival of the specie any other way.
Posted by eric, a resident of another community, on May 27, 2009 at 1:12 pm
"Eric -- That's good. We were starting to agree on too many things. I was getting worried."
-I think it shows intellectual growth on your part ;-)
"While the protests at Stanford are more low key than say Oakland, blocking traffic never won any converts. That's just drives people away."
-Maybe, but it doesnt alter my assertion
"The pro gay marriage folks have tried to paint their opponents as a small group of political and religious extremists... The Mormons just provided a convenient targets for the liberal blogger talk points."
-I concur with the first part of this statement. This is pretty much universal in a 'social-issue' debate. Mormon support was, however, quite substantial-- which is not a big issue to me, though I question why they retain tax-exempt status given their large role nationwide in the political arena.
"The reality is that the substantial majority of centrists support traditional marriage"
-Maybe so (for now), though I think that this is a soft point for most centrist opponents-- I think that there are a LOT of gay marriage opponents that wouldnt cross the street to voice their disapproval. Less so on the pro-gay marriage side.
"yeah, democracy sucks when you don't get your way. Let me tell you about last November ..."
--no, no, no. As you are well aware, there is a deeply-rooted component of democratic government that exists to protect the minority from mob rule. Not only is it extensively written about in pretty every source that influenced the formation of our govt (Mill, of course, de Toqueville, I'm pretty sure Locke covered the concept), but its the entire POINT of a good deal of the Constitution. I contend that Prop 8 is enforcing mob rule on a minority. During our lifetimes, it would have been possible to win a popular vote in some parts of the country banning blacks from living in certain towns, for seizing property from billionaires, barring certain religions from practing their beiefs, etc, etc. Doesnt make any of these things right or protected under the guise of democracy.
"Gay marriage is not a right to begin with, but that's a topic for another post."
- I disagree, but thats a bigger can o' worms than I'm willing to open today. I will ask again, though-- how does a gay couples marriage impact mine or yours?
Posted by Resident, a resident of the Old Mountain View neighborhood, on May 27, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Obama opposed 8 because the rights of the minority should never be put up for a vote by the majority. I don't understand how people think that is OK. And I say "right" because it WAS legal at that point. It's a slippery slope, whose rights will we vote to take away next? Because I have some ideas...
And yes, Obama believes marriage is between a man and a woman. I voted for him but I am totally disappointed in his stance on the issue.
Posted by USA, a resident of the Old Mountain View neighborhood, on May 27, 2009 at 3:59 pm USA is a member (registered user) of Mountain View Online
Unlike the rest of you, I have never been very good at reading other people's minds, so I cannot comment on what Obama *really* thinks or the strength of his beliefs.
His statements, though have been clear that he opposes prop 8 but is not for gay marriage, a position held by many Californians that oppose gay marriage but don't want to go so far as to amend (revise) the CA constitution. His positions were well known before the election.
By the way, I am ROFLMAO at people who called Bush an idiot but are now so surprised that Obama really isn't everything to everyone.
Posted by eric, a resident of another community, on May 27, 2009 at 10:08 pm
USA, how do you figure that taking some unpopular and nuanced stances is the same as being an idiot? Obama has taken some actions that I disagree with, but many have gone against the safe and predictable ideological grain. Bush, not so much.
I dont want or expect my president to be all things to all people. I want him to make decisions and lead. Obama is doing just that-- Bush didnt
Posted by USA, a resident of the Old Mountain View neighborhood, on May 28, 2009 at 9:18 am USA is a member (registered user) of Mountain View Online
Eric, my learned friend, we are again in agreement. I think that Obama is doing a good job navigating the realities of running the country.
My delight is with the angry Left who have been armchair quarterbacking for the last eight years. They thought Bush was an idiot and are now disappointed with Obama for adopting several of Bush's policies. What they just cannot comprehend is that the real world has many conflicting priorities, costs, and constraints. In many cases the Bush/Obama policies are the best solution given the realities.
Posted by eric, a resident of another community, on May 28, 2009 at 9:54 am
You are correct that some of the LATE term Bush polilicies-- greatly altered from the bulk of his administration--- remain intact. While I dont completely agree with Obamas choices here, as you correctly point out, the facts on the ground differ from public perception.
By the time Bush had changed course, though, the damage was done- our nations security and standing were harmed, lives lost, money spent, economy wounded.
A modest course change in the 8th inning doesnt excuse the rest of the game.
All that said, you are 100% correct that people out there saying, 'well I wont vote for Obama because of (insert single policy choice here) are silly and unrealistic-- just like their right wing ding-dong counterparts.
Posted by Steve, a resident of the Cuernavaca neighborhood, on May 29, 2009 at 8:18 pm
And then when gay marriage is passed and Catholics and Protestants who believe and express their values of traditional marriage, the gay Nazi thought police will be the first to label them haters.
And when gay values are pushed upon our children in public schools, and parents attempt to speak out against it, the gay Nazi thought police will seek to over rule the rights of parents, even though they cannot biologically reproduce, only indoctrinate.