Immigration forum seeks to allay fears Other Issues, posted by Editor, Mountain View Voice Online, on Jun 8, 2007 at 11:50 am
As the nation continues to debate its immigration laws, a handful of Spanish-speaking Mountain View residents came to St. Joseph church last weekend to learn more about the issue, and were given advice by local officials on how to deal with federal immigration agents.
Posted by tax revolt, a resident of the Shoreline West neighborhood, on Jun 8, 2007 at 11:50 am
Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren "made an agreement with ICE that they wouldn't do any large-scale raids in Santa Clara County."
Well, I guess since the laws doesn't apply to illegal aliens, I feel no obligation to adhere to the law either. I will now offer cash discounts in my business and not report the transactions or pay taxes on them. Don't like it? Zoe Lufgren can give me amnesty
Posted by A citizen, a resident of the Old Mountain View neighborhood, on Jun 8, 2007 at 12:09 pm
These public appointed and elected officials should hang their head in shame for not upholding the law. The illegals are breaking the back of America causing increased health costs for American citizens, crowding our schools, taking jobs that high school and college age students used to do. There is in fact a federal law against aiding and abetting illegals aliens. These officals are in violation of these laws.
Posted by Deborah, a resident of the Old Mountain View neighborhood, on Jun 8, 2007 at 12:18 pm
And the Mayor of LA wants more federal funds to fight gangs taking over his city! Yet he welcomes illegal immigrants and protects them. You get what you deserve when you let your community leaders break the law. We all need to rise up and fight this imbalance of justice and demand our immigration laws are enforced or all of us should ignore the law and sue counties, cities, states and the federal government if we are arrested for ANYTHING!
Posted by John, a resident of another community, on Jun 8, 2007 at 12:51 pm
Take notice of the "elected officials" who work only for criminals and against law abiding citizens.
It's not a republican/democrat issue: they are selling us out for their own personal power. Take note of how they voted on the senate bill. Our own Senators turned down an amendment that would have prevented gang members and felons from getting legal status.
We must throw them out - the politicians and the illegals - or we will lose the country our forefathers fought and died for, as well as our childrens futures.
Posted by Don D, a resident of another community, on Jun 8, 2007 at 12:59 pm
In reading your elected and school officials blatantly defy the law I'm aghast. Must you remind them:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed" ?
The aliens have no claim to your public officials concern-those very officials are supposed to be securing your inalienable rights, not compromising them, or concerning themselves with the well being of foreign nationals.
John said it best:
"We must throw them out - the politicians and the illegals - or we will lose the country our forefathers fought and died for, as well as our childrens futures."
Posted by Bobby, a resident of the Cuesta Park neighborhood, on Jun 8, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Zoe Lofgren, Barbara Boxer, the utterly corrupt Dianne Feinstein, Jane Harman, many, many other polticians, as well as the whole democratic machine in Sacramento, should be arrested for being in vioaltion of not enforcing the immigration laws NOW on the books. They have been on the books since 1986. They have not been enforced since 1986. Americans are being misled. You either have laws that are enforced or you live in a state of lawlessness(like now).
Posted by Amanda, a resident of the The Crossings neighborhood, on Jun 8, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Wow, Don... I really have to differ with your interpretation of "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"
See, that says to me that ALL men (women, what-have-you)... no matter where they, or their parents, originated.
This country would be nothing without immigrants. And they ARE created equal with certain unalienable Rights.
Posted by Carlos Rodriguez, a resident of another community, on Jun 8, 2007 at 5:28 pm
As a Hispanic who has lived in Latin America, to hear elected officials aiding a large group of individuals on how to continue breaking our laws, being a cost to our taxpayer and a relative danger to our citizenry, would seem to me to be a challenge from them to be impeached. Any public official who engages in a conduct that aids the criminal acts of another is himself engaging in criminal acts and at the very least a dereliction of his duties implicit in his/her oath of office.
Amanda: Immigrants, are created equal. They were created equal in their country. The circumstances of their arrival in this country; the trail of actions and decisions taken by them define them as legitimate residents and visitors, or illegal aliens who have sefishly foisted their presence upon our comunities consuming its assets while depressing wages and driving up the cost of those comodities which their aggregate demand affects. One of the certain unalienable rights implicit in our constitution is to have laws applied without preference. The amnesty proposals being shuffled in congress are the ultimate in prefferential treatment to a minority interest group to benefit a yet smaller albeit mucho more politically and economically powerful elite.
If the country had been built on the pattern provided by those who will break the law in order to improve their lot in life, we wouldn't have government; we'd have organized crime... Just like Mexico and other third-world countries where might makes right.
The clowns in office should be impeached or voted out of office. The illegal aliens should be reported to the applicable authorities for any and all of their ancilliary crimes.
Posted by Donald C., a resident of the Shoreline West neighborhood, on Jun 8, 2007 at 8:26 pm
without the fear opf deportation the Latino illegal aliens in Mountain View [portion removed by Mountain View Voice staff].
Why M.V. city leaders and its public safety officials would encourage illegfal aliens to continue to break the laws of this land is beyond me. This meeting for some ungodly reason is meant only to subvert federal immigration law and is morally and ethically wrong. Just as wrong as Zoe Lofgren is to make a backroom deal with ICE not to operate in Santa Clara County. Shamme on this immigration lawyer who is masquerading as a congresswoman. She is obviously profiteering from all the immigration cases sent her way.
Posted by Larry, a resident of the The Crossings neighborhood, on Jun 8, 2007 at 9:39 pm
IMPORTING A SLAVE CLASS
By Ann Coulter
May 23, 2007
We either have to deport all the illegal aliens immediately or we must grant amnesty to all illegal aliens. Some would have us believe that because we can't deport them all, the only alternative is too grant them amnesty. There is no middle ground.
Should we stop enforcing laws because we can't catch all the people who break them?
We also can't catch all thieves, people who drive over the speed limit, burglars, rapists, murderers, etc., so why don't we grant amnesty to all of these people? What we need is "comprehensive crime reform". We need to know who these people are and then these people will be able to stop living in the shadows. We can then make them pay a fine. This will not be amnesty.
Apparently, my position on immigration is that we must deport all 12 million illegal aliens immediately, inasmuch as this is billed as the only alternative to immediate amnesty. The jejune fact that we "can't deport them all" is supposed to lead ineluctably to the conclusion that we must grant amnesty to illegal aliens — and fast!
I'm astounded that debate has sunk so low that I need to type the following words, but: No law is ever enforced 100 percent.
We can't catch all rapists, so why not grant amnesty to rapists? Surely no one wants thousands of rapists living in the shadows! How about discrimination laws? Insider trading laws? Do you expect Bush to round up everyone who goes over the speed limit? Of course we can't do that. We can't even catch all murderers. What we need is "comprehensive murder reform." It's not "amnesty" — we'll ask them to pay a small fine.
If it's "impossible" to deport illegal aliens, how did we come to have so much specific information about them? I keep hearing they are Catholic, pro-life, hardworking, just dying to become American citizens, and will take jobs other Americans won't. Someone must have talked to them to gather all this information. Let's find that guy — he must know where they are!
How do we even know there are 12 million of them? Why not 3 million, or 40 million? Maybe we should put the guy who counted them in charge of deporting them.
If the 12-million figure is an extrapolation based on the number of illegal immigrants in public schools or emergency rooms and well-manicured lawns in Brentwood, then shouldn't we be looking for them at schools and hospitals and well-manicured lawns in Brentwood?
I believe that the shortage of unskilled, non-English-speaking Mexicans we experienced in the '60s has been remedied by now.
Since Teddy Kennedy's 1965 Immigration Act, more than half of all legal immigrants have been unskilled, non-English-speaking Mexicans. America takes in roughly 1 million legal immigrants each year. Only about 30,000 of them have Ph.D.s. Why on earth would any rational immigration policy discriminate against immigrants with Ph.D.s in favor of unskilled, non-English-speaking immigrants?
Say, don't Ph.D.s and other skilled workers have more influence on government policy than unskilled workers? Aren't they more likely to bend a president's ear? Yes, I believe they are! Noticeably, the biggest proponents of the government's policy of importing a huge underclass of unskilled workers are not themselves unskilled workers.
The great bounty of cheap labor by unskilled immigrants isn't going to hardworking Americans who hang drywall or clean hotel rooms — and who are having trouble getting jobs, now that they're forced to compete with the vast influx of unskilled workers who don't pay taxes.
The people who make arguments about "jobs Americans won't do" are never in a line of work where unskilled immigrants can compete with them. Liberals love to strike generous, humanitarian poses with other people's lives.
Something tells me the immigration debate would be different if we were importing millions of politicians or Hollywood agents. You lose your job, while I keep my job at the Endeavor agency, my Senate seat, my professorship, my editorial position or my presidency. (And I get a maid!)
The only beneficiaries of these famed hardworking immigrants — unlike you lazy Americans — are the wealthy, who want the cheap labor while making the rest of us chip in for the immigrants' schooling, food and health care.
These great lovers of the downtrodden — the downtrodden trimming their hedges — pretend to believe that their gardeners' children will be graduating from Harvard and curing cancer someday, but (1) they don't believe that; and (2) if it happened, they'd lose their gardeners.
Not to worry, Marie Antoinettes! According to "Alien Nation" author Peter Brimelow, "There is recent evidence that, even after four generations, fewer than 10 percent of Mexicans have post-high school degrees, as opposed to nearly half of non-Mexican-Americans." So you'll always have the maid. As New York mayor Michael Bloomberg said, our golf fairways would suffer without illegal immigrants: "You and I both play golf; who takes care of the greens and the fairways on your golf course?"
We fought a civil war to force Democrats to give up on slavery 150 years ago. They've become so desperate for servants that now they're importing an underclass to wash their clothes and pick their vegetables. This vast class of unskilled immigrants is the left's new form of slavery.
What do they care if their servants are made citizens eligible to vote and collect government benefits? Aren't the fabulously rich happy in Venezuela? Oops, wrong example. Brazil? No, no, let me try again. Mexico! ... Well, no matter. What could go wrong?
Posted by Bobby, a resident of the Cuesta Park neighborhood, on Jun 9, 2007 at 10:40 am
I'm sure you do have respect Amanda--for everything but the law. You said without immigrants we are nothing. No, without the law, we are nothing. That is what makes us something, what even allows us freedom and safety.
Posted by Amanda, a resident of the The Crossings neighborhood, on Jun 9, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Bobby, we are a country BUILT on immigrants. Without immigrants, the Native people would remain as the dominant race. America is what it is, historically because of immigrants, for better or for worse.
WRT the law, I absolutely respect the law. There are laws I disagree with, however, as does everyone, I'm sure. This is also part of what makes this country run, the fact that we get to agree and disagree with legislation.
Posted by Tanya, a resident of the The Crossings neighborhood, on Jun 9, 2007 at 9:13 pm
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" Emma Lazarus, enscribed on a pedestal at the Statue of Liberty The Statue of Liberty is next to Ellis Island, where my great-grandparents and my sons' grandfather emigrated to this country. They came to live the American Dream, worked hard, and made a life for themselves. My family benefited from their courage and vision. The immigration debate strikes at the very foundation of our country. How can we now say to immigrants, "Sorry, you've got bad timing - you should have arrived a century ago," or "Well, you just happen to have been born in the wrong country - too bad!" Imagine waving a magic wand that could ship out every illegal immigrant from California overnight. The impact on our society would be profound! The California economy would grind to a halt. There would be a shortage of produce and crops. Thousands of necessary and vital jobs would be instantly vacant. Just for fun, rent or borrow "A Day Without a Mexican" from the public library. It's a comedy, but I can tell you that I haven't looked at produce in the grocery store or a bottle of California Chardonnay the same way again. What will you say to children born in this country - rightful American citizens just like you and me - when their parents are rounded up and deported? You did the "lawful" thing? If our society worried more about doing the humanitarian thing instead, we'd be a lot better off.
Posted by Don Frances, Mountain View Voice Editor, on Jun 11, 2007 at 3:25 pm Don Frances is a member (registered user) of Mountain View Online
Sure thing. We're trying to regulate these comments so that they meet a high standard of discourse. One thing we're watching out for is comments that dismiss others' arguments without explanation. These are often one-liners, e.g. "Well that's stupid."
You didn't use that word -- I think you said "prejudiced," which isn't a bad word on its own. But it requires at least a little bit of explanation as to why you think the other person/argument is prejudiced.
Posted by Bobby, a resident of the Cuesta Park neighborhood, on Jun 11, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Ok, fair enough. The comments made by both Amanda and Tanya, while fully supporting the massive illegal immigration that continues, give no support whatever, to American citizens that must continue to pay for it. In job depression, higher taxes, lost jobs, increased crime, and submission to a foreign culture--none of which the immigrants of the past subjected this nation to. Conclusion: the two posters mentioned are totally prejudiced for the interests of illegal aliens and against the interests of hardworking,taxpaying, lawabiding American citizens. The reasons for their attitude is something only they know.
Posted by Amanda, a resident of the The Crossings neighborhood, on Jun 11, 2007 at 6:21 pm
Nice straw man...
I never said that I fully supported massive illegal immigration, nor, as I look back, did Tanya. All of your "supporting statements" are assumptions based on your own prejudices.
What job depression? Are you lining up to go out to the fields to work? We're hardly lacking for work for all people. Jobs are plentiful, we're not in a recession.
Higher taxes, sure, we have to support other people. We also have to support all children through education bonds and taxes, and many elderly and chronically ill through our contributions to medical insurance payments. That's simply part of living in a society, and I, for one, am happy to do it.
Some increased crime, I will give you is an issue, but the fact that you are applying it solely to immigrants is inaccurate and a prejudgement of your own. Crime exists, and most of it is done by people legal to this country.
Lastly on your laundry list of issues, I find the foreign culture to be enriching. It is an asset to our society, not a detriment. Again, this arguement only reflects your own bias.
My position, as I've stated many times in this debate, is for the rights of ALL people, and to find a balance within to reach that end. Any other "prejudice" you read into that is on you.
Posted by Bobby, a resident of the Cuesta Park neighborhood, on Jun 11, 2007 at 8:24 pm
Sorry, Amanda but your arguements are based on faulty premises. For example,job depression does not mean only people getting less working to pick vegetables, hard work, no doubt. By the way, 75% of all agriculture in the U.S. is done by Americans. Here, however, you are trying to get people to believe illegal aliens are "only doing the jobs Americans don't want to do". Where have we heard this before? So on this at least,you agree with President Bush. Bet your not a Republican either. Carpenters, masonry work, drywalling, painting, construction,--all formerly well paying blue collar jobs, that Americans wanted to do, aren't well paying now. It's called wage depression. Maybe this is no great concern with your circumstances. Higher taxes? you say you for one are happy to pay them. Well, I have found that in life people are about as happy as their circumstances allow. Some people are on fixed incomes. They are not happy to pay increased taxes. Some AMERICANS struggling to raise families, are not happy to do it. Perhaps, surprise, they can't afford to be happy about it. Increased crime. I never said I am only applying it to immigrants. I simply said they are adding their share to what we already have, that's why I called it "increased" crime. Also, since so many illegal aliens have several names, it's kind of hard to catch them, like our home grown criminals. Then when they flee to Mexico,for instance, the Mexican government won't send them back to us, Amanda. Foreign culture is something I have no problem with. I speak more than one language. I have traveled, I'd bet, more than you have. However, I have the feeling that I'm not the only American who does'n really like to see the Mexican and other flags, constantly flown in my face, during the Marches--in my country. Can I say that, my country? I'll bet some Americans don't like press one for... I'll bet some Americans don't like to have their childrens educational day cut short by having to learn Spanish, for instance, because certain ethnic lobby groups demand it. Now if you'll notice Amanda, my arguements have been centered around what is good for long time , hardworking, taxpaying American citizens, and other legal residents. Not people who were never invited here in the first place. You see, Mexico for example, won't allow foreign flags to be flown in their schools, they won't allow foreigners to protest on their streets. They won't pay for bilingual education. They won't pay for peoples expenses who are not Mexican citizens, and those aren't straw men speaking, those are the Mexican laws talking. I figure hardworking American citizens, in the United States, are owed as much as the citizens of Mexico.
Posted by tax revolt, a resident of the Shoreline West neighborhood, on Jun 11, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Well, Tanya, the difference is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were hammered out by delegates of their respective states (besides Rhode Island) and contains mechanisms so it can be modified via constitutional ammendment. 'New Colossus' was written by one individual and offers no recourse to those who may disagree.
Posted by Amanda, a resident of the The Crossings neighborhood, on Jun 11, 2007 at 9:25 pm
I think on some of this we will agree to disagree... and that's fine, again, that's what makes this country what it is. I still believe that it takes a village to do more than raise a child, more to take care of everyone within it.
Odd that you've tried to paint me as prejudiced, and republican. You put forth that I supported "massive illegal immigration". Those are your straw men. You're trying discredit me based on things you don't know about me or my position.
I can't speak for what Mexico does, or does not. What I can do is continue to be open minded (which includes that I hear what you are saying, even if I continue to disagree with it). I can continue to fight for those people who are HERE. Their CHILDREN are citizens. They work HARD. They want a better life, for themselves and their families, than what they HAD.
So I ask you, what would you do? These are people... not statistics. They're HERE. The voices in this debate want to just ship them out with no consideration to their circumstances. They find politicians corrupt because they don't agree with current legislation. Is it such a crime to want to HELP people? ALL people?
You speak of American's struggling... WE pay for them as well. I'm equally happy to put forth my tax dollars, my insurance premiums, etc etc, to help pay for MediCal, for WIC, for all the programs that help ALL people in this country. The difference I don't feel the need to differentiate based on where the person originated.
You mentioned my circumstances, and the fact is we don't have tons of extra to throw around. So what? Maybe I'm just optimistic, but again, I feel it's about more than just myself.
Bobby, the biggest difference is that I see the people who are HERE as equally important. ALL people who are here. That's not a prejudice, to the best of my knowledge. I do NOT "give no support whatever, to American citizens that must continue to pay for it." I support them just as much as I do those who are immigrants here.
In the end, this isn't about ME, though. Who cares what I think? Clearly your position (and the others posting here, except for myself and Tanya) seems pretty set in stone. You perceive some damage done that would be fixed by, what? Sending all illegals back to Mexico? Help me out here, because I just don't GET that.
Posted by Matt, a resident of the The Crossings neighborhood, on Jun 11, 2007 at 9:59 pm
Is it just illegals? What about H1B's and other resident aliens? Are they a problem too?
The official language of the State of California is English. However, there is no official language in America, and most other states haven't designated one either. I think some cultures that are more family-oriented pass their language along to the kids more easily. They often live in households with multiple generations all together. It isn't a bad thing, just different from what I grew up with. My Dad moved here from Germany when he was 14. He has no accent, and he never spoke German to us at home. Earlier in the 20th century even Germans lived closer together in places like Philadelphia's German Town.
In my opinion, wage depression is caused more by globalization than illegal aliens. There are far fewer manufacturing jobs around now (i.e. blue collar jobs). So there is far more "real-American" competition for the jobs that Bobby mentioned. Those workers are feeling the pinch. Instead of attacking illegal aliens, we should be asking our leaders to reduce the trade deficit and bring some "old-school" jobs back to America.
What is left of our economy when all that is remaining are service industry jobs? When the housing bubble fully collapses, we may be in for a real depression. Construction seems to be the only thing keeping this economy going. So far the Bay Area hasn't seen a downturn. Keep repeating the mantra, "it is different here".
Posted by tax revolt, a resident of the Shoreline West neighborhood, on Jun 11, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Those opposed to amnesty should call their Senators and Reps and tell them if Amnesty is passed then you will no longer file tax returns or pay taxes, even if you don't really mean it. Use a fake name or remain anonymous. With gerrymandered districts and campaign finance advantages for incumbents, telling them you won't vote for them is a hollow threat. However, if thousands of angry citizens are threatening a tax revolt, then maybe they will back off amnesty for up to 20 million illegals. Amnesty doesn't just reward the illegals, it rewards our own politicians who've intentionally failed to enforce immigration laws after the last amnesty in 1986. You want to rattle their cages? Call your elected officials and tell them if amnesty passes, the social contract is null and void and you will not submit your consent to be governed in the form of income tax. Again, even if you don't mean it. This is a high stakes poker game, so bluff them. They've lied to us for years.
Posted by Matt, a resident of the The Crossings neighborhood, on Jun 11, 2007 at 11:24 pm
Where did this talk of amnesty come from? I didn't see it in the original MV Voice article. It sounds like a good idea though. That would eliminate this whole problem. Thanks. I'll write to my representatives and encourage them to pass it.
P.S. I think they are harder on tax cheats than illegal immigrants. I could be wrong. Good luck.
Posted by Bobby, a resident of the Cuesta Park neighborhood, on Jun 12, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Amanda, I also realize that we will have to agree to disagree. Perhaps you feel I am a person who rejects other cultures. Perhaps you feel I am close minded. What is going on in this nation is massive illegality. Massive amounts of Document fraud, welfare fraud, identity theft.( close to a million peoples identities stolen) The liberal/progressive ideology is going to be the end of this nation of freedom and individuality. The elites take advantage of the fact that the American public is torn on the issues. The public school system loves massive illegal immigration because it represents more warm bodies and thus more security and jobs for teachers/administrators. No thought is given as to who will pay for it all. California is broke, if you have'nt noticed. The acquiesence by progressives to allowing mulitple languages will lead us to the way of Quebec, Canada. Strife and factionalism will be the outcome. The village you speak of will be not one, but several villages, because of having several languages. I do not believe it takes a village. The village idea was tried some 80 or so years ago, in another place and lead to massive murder of its own population and finally failed around 1990. I believe it takes a country of individualists, guided by the concept of honoring the law, and having representatives who protect the integrity of those laws for the people. If you look at what Sacramento has done, they have dishonored the laws for years as exemplified by Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein, along with the Sacramento establishment. Enough said. We will see Amanda, as time goes on, what actually happens.
Posted by Dar, a resident of the The Crossings neighborhood, on Jan 24, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Men generally don't change, even after promising to do so. In fact, the older they get the more set in their ways they become. Able-bodied men who live off women are bums. I knew this man while I lived in Mesa, AZ who let his wife support him while he worked a part-time low end security job. She took care of everything while he sat on his bum. He kept growing fatter and fatter yet dished her for the color of her hair and weight. He doesn't want to stay married so he pursues women who will support him. He reads love books and articles to sweet talk them into a relationship and then springs on them his many physical faults and financial woes, a little at a time, hoping they will overlook them and still want a "loving" man. He's still married. He doesn't want to change or become educated or skilled in order to provide for his family. Instead he cheats on his wife looking for women who are financially secure. He does all this saying he is a Christian.