Post a New Topic
Original post made
on Jul 12, 2010
One sure way to get cities to ban pot clubs permanently is to violate their laws and make them think that pot clubs are run by people with no regard for the law.
And both cities seemed to be on track to eventually approve such clubs, but maybe not anymore.
It's a shame that dispensaries are tied up while municipalities "study" the issue. Why not let them open on a temporary basis and see IF there are any problems and, if so, write regulations to solve those problems? From what I have seen, they are run professionally, responsibly, there is no consumption of marijuana allowed, Doctors' authorization is required and verified, and if a dispensary was operating NEXT DOOR to a school, no one would likely even know about it, let alone be a problem. There are no pro-marijuana signs and even the name of the establishment can be as innocuous as "Alternative Medication Dispensary".
So, forget the "studies", allow it on a temporary basis, and deal with any problems IF they happen instead of panic-from-speculation and unnecessary restrictions.
Have you ever known a construction project to finish on schedule? Posting dates for MV at this juncture would be pointless.
I don't regret voting for legal medical marijuana but look through The Metro and see how pot clubs operate. I counted 31 ads for pot clubs and probably missed a few. Some advertise referrals to doctors for $49. This should not be allowed near schools. I now think the law should be changed to allow pot sales by pharmacies like any other prescription drug. But maybe the initiative to legalize and tax pot will pass and then maybe the whole issue will go away.
I regret that some of you are annoyed that Buddy's Cannabis won't wait until a city, hopefully and eventually, passes an ordinance allowing medical marijuana dispensaries to operate on the Peninsula. If you or your loved ones were suffering the way that many of our 1,000+ members are suffering, you'd understand why we can't wait.
Candidate for Mountain View City Council
Hmm, my first comment just disappeared? Anyone from the MV Voice care to speculate on where it went?
Shame on the City of Mountain View for wasting our taxpayer dollars in a cruel war against the sick and suffering. The people of California voted 14 years ago to allow the medicinal use of cannabis and the Mountain View City Council continues to block access despite the support of the vast majority (70-80%) of its constituents.
Sunnyvale has the chance to do the right thing. I call on the Sunnyvale City Council to take a courageous stand on behalf of medical cannabis patients throughout the area. Over 20,000 studies support the safety and efficacy of this extraordinary plant; who among you will stand up for the sick and suffering you purport to represent?
Mountain View, CA
i feel bad for people who truly need/use marijuana for medicinal purposes. for the most part, people who run and frequent these pot clubs are making a mockery of the legality. i have yet to view a news report featuring someone who appears to smoke pot for medical reasons. all i see are punks and hippies, smoking their joints and blowing puffs of smoke at the camera, with despicable smirks on their faces because they have "beat the system." thank god mountain view forced buddy's out of our lovely city!
God Bless You Matt Lucero, you'll have my vote.
We should start calling you the modern day Robin Hood.
More tax revenue for Sunnyvale; less for Mountain View. What has been gained?
heidi said: "...for the most part, people who run and frequent these pot clubs are making a mockery of the legality."
On what basis do you make this totally unsubstantiated claim? Cities like Mountain View who repeatedly defy the will of their voters are the ones making an ongoing mockery of the legality and the democratic process.
"I have yet to view a news report featuring someone who appears to smoke pot for medical reasons."
Agreed. If you form your opinion from what you see in the news you will remain ignorant. The news media presents a highly biased and sensationalistic view of the medical cannabis issue. (Note the MV Voice's repeated use of the derogatory term "pot club" to describe cannabis collectives.) Due to ongoing persecution and harassment, most patients keep a low profile and certainly won't go anywhere near the news media.
Perhaps, as Mr. Lucero suggested above, you would feel more compassionate if you or your loved ones were among the 1000+ patients recently spat upon by the Mountain View City Council. Like all civil rights issues, this one is easier to grasp when it affects you directly.
Nothing like a little bit of shameless self-promotion by Matt Lucero. Do we want this guy on our City Council? After reading about the HSR situation, maybe he couldn't be any worse than the current lot.
all of this hassle to get some weed... sounds like addiction... if it is such a useful drug why is it not sold at a pharmacy????
The problem with medical marijuana aren't the patients, it those individuals and organizations that are co-opting the medicinal marijuana cause to shield their intent to use marijuana for other reasons.
The ONLY difference between recreational marijuana and medicinal marijuana is the INTENT of the user. That makes it the ideal substance to abuse.
The problem with medical marijuana is that it needs to prove it case as medicine, if only to ensure is efficacy and to implement its distribution to patients like we do every other drug-based medicine: with a prescription, through a pharmacy.
When we don't do that, and try to set up a puppet distribution system that mimics something akin to a liquor store or herbal shop, you attract individuals like Mr. Lucero, who will gladly capitalize on the cause and ignore existing laws.
heidi said: "...for the most part, people who run and frequent these pot clubs are making a mockery of the legality."
On what basis do you make this totally unsubstantiated claim? Cities like Mountain View who repeatedly defy the will of their voters are the ones making an ongoing mockery of the legality and the democratic process."
Denying there isn't rampant abuse of the medicinal marijuana as proposed is refusing to see the forest for the trees. Take off the rose colored glasses... all is not rainbows and blue skies.
Hardin--Your links contradict your very point, as they go to discussion boards where patients with legitimate medical need ask how to go about getting a card. One has glaucoma, another has a history of stomach aches and headaches, both conditions for which cannabis can be quite effective (and is safer than any pharmaceutical).
Because cannabis can be effective for such a wide variety of conditions, including psychological conditions like depression, anxiety, ADHD, social phobias, PTSD and other frequently medicated conditions, many people assume the majority of patients aren't serious about their use and are somehow "abusing" cannabis. Abuse is unconscious self-destructive behavior. I ask again: on what basis do you or anyone else conclude that large numbers of patients are not legitimately helped by cannabis?
Cannabis is one of the most studies plants on the planet, with over 900 studies this year alone, over 2700 studies last year. In its 10,000 year history there is not a credible report of a death from overdose or allergic reaction. Cannabis' overwhelming safety and yes, efficacy is quite well established...except among closed-minded DEA agents and anti-cannabis fundamentalists.
Here's a partial list of published studies. A dot indicates a positive outcome: Web Link
Hardin: I repeat my earlier offer to meet with you to discuss the issue in person to see if we can find some common ground. jsteigman at gmail.
Sounds like a great idea! I'd like to discuss the issue and get high and the same time!
pot clubs, cannabis collectives...call them whatever you want. it is quite obvious that these operations are not serving *just* those in need of medicinal marijuana. the news rarely features real medical patients - and that is precisely my point. who are these people, featured on the news, gathering together to smoke their joints at the cannabis collectives? those people, abusing the law, are the problem.
like i originally said - i feel bad for people who truly need/use marijuana for medicinal purposes.
ignorant, i am not. i see things as they are - people taking advantage of a law that was intended to help people in pain. perhaps marijuana should be prescribed by a doctor and dispensed by a pharmacist like any other drug? this would eliminate the need for undesirable gathering places in our cities.
"pot clubs, cannabis collectives...call them whatever you want. it is quite obvious that these operations are not serving *just* those in need of medicinal marijuana."
The exact same thing can be said for Walgreens, except those who abuse at Walgreens are getting far more dangerous and addictive compounds, like opiate pain killers and heavily sedating tranquilizers.
Also, how do you know those you see on tv are abusing the law? Do you know what a person with anxiety looks like? Can you spot the person who cannot fall asleep at night out of a crowd?
To not be ignorant need to become more knowledgeable about what conditions are legally allowed to be treated by cannabis.
You don't get to decide who gets medicine by how they LOOK to you.
You're wrestling with your personal biases and I applaud that. Now if you can only see past them.
To assume that all medicinal use of marijuana is fraudulent and insincere is judgmental and prejudiced.
To assume that all medicinal use of marijuana is for medical purposes, is naive and delusional.
You can substitute the word "marijuana" for any other drug-based medicine in the 2 phrases above and they would still hold true.
What makes them especially true for marijuana is that there is nothing physically or chemically different between marijuana used for recreational purposes, and that used for medicinal purposes. The difference is strictly defined by the INTENT of the user, which makes it difficult to regulate and easy to abuse. As much as supporters opine on the safety, non-toxic, medicinal properties of marijuana, they refuse to acknowledge and recognize that abuse will happen.
There is no other substance that receives this "duel citizenship" role, where the medicinal form and the recreational form are identical, and for good reason, abuse would be rampant.
The use of established good practices, like testing, prescriptions, and pharmacies is not to ELIMINATE abuse, but to minimize it. This is true with all regulation, and there is no justification for treating marijuana any differently, if it is being used as medicine.
We don't leave our doors unlocked and assume burglary doesn't happen. We don't hand over our children to strangers and hope for the best. We don't assume the best case, and suspend belief of the worst case. The times we have, with Wall Street and with the Oil Industry, its cost us dearly.
"...Abuse is unconscious self-destructive behavior..."
What I glean from this statement:
1. It's not my fault if I abuse marijuana, its my self-conscious that's forcing me to do it without my knowledge or consent.
2. I'm only hurting myself, it doesn't affect other people, so its none of your business.
"Because cannabis can be effective for such a wide variety of conditions, including psychological conditions like depression, anxiety, ADHD, social phobias, PTSD and other frequently medicated conditions, many people assume the majority of patients aren't serious about their use and are somehow "abusing" cannabis."
My 3 year old complains, "My tummy ouch, ouch" whenever I put fish and veggies on her plate. Her condition magically disappears when the chocolate ice cream is served.
Does this mean I should start calling chocolate ice cream, "Medicinal", and that God forbid, my child isn't "abusing" the system?
I see a lot of ignorance here. I will try to dispel some:
Marijuana contains many active ingredients, but the primary ones are THC (tetrahydrocannabinol) and CBD (Cannabidiol). The former gets you high while the latter has anti-inflammatory properties. I, for one, am looking for hemp-- high CBD, low THC, because I want the anti-inflammation without the high, else it is more difficult to function efficiently.
While some use the medical marijuana system as a ruse to get high, many (most?) get much good from it. I use it for pain relief from arthritis-- the alternative is opiates, which are addictive. Marijuana is NOT addictive, though some "losers" will appear to be because they're psychologically addicted to an altered state, and will use anything to achieve it.
Did you know that people relax when using marijuana and do not get violent, like they sometimes do with alcohol? Did you know that you cannot overdose on marijuana (if you try, you will just go to sleep for a while)? Did you know that if someone is stupid enough to drive under the influence, they tend to drive much slower than normal, unlike alcohol. So, which do you prefer-- addictive opiates, alcohol which makes some violent and want to drive fast, or an herb which makes people happy, relaxed, and free from pain or other maladies?
If we could buy it from the pharmacy, most would. But it is ignorance like some expressed here that has kept it from being refined and offered as a medication. For example, what if a dispensary were NEXT DOOR to a school? Kids might see people going into a non-descript industrial building, to emerge a few minutes later carrying a brown bag. Consumption is not allowed on the premises. ID's and doctor authorizations are carefully checked. Why the uptightness? Ignornance!
About me: While I used marijuana recreationally in college many decades ago, I've only recently begun using edible marijuana to provide relief from bad arthritis. I only use it in the evenings, as it makes me sleepy, and never when I am outside the house. I use Vicodin or Oxycontin (both addictive opiates) sparingly when I must go outdoors for errands. I wish to avoid addiction to the opiates, so I use marijuana for its pain relief and anti-inflammatory properties. I am a graduate school graduate, now retired, and very responsible.
The fear/ignorance regarding marijuana is what keeps crime rampant and is a waste of tax payer money.
To the MV Voice: Is is common (or ethical) for a news site to change an article completely but leave all the comments intact? This is not the original article. Not that I expect ethical behavior from this site; your continued use of the biased and disparaging term "pot clubs" shows that you have an anti-cannabis agenda.
Hardin: I am sorry you don't know the difference between the complaints of a 3-year-old and the legitimate psychological conditions I mentioned. Or do you also think the contents of the DSM IV can be treated with chocolate ice cream?
Watch out Sunnyvale. He might run for city council now.
Matt Lucero has my vote. It's high time we busted up the "old boy" network running this absurdly dysfunctional version of Mayberry.
Wow! It really seems like the medical necessity for Cannabis is being swallowed up by the Politics of it all!! And I find it all so comical to be stero-typed as well lol!
As a member of "Buddy's" and two other Cannabis Clubs in SF Bay Area, let me tell the general population who/what a typical Medical Cannabis user is like...
I am your co-worker. The one who is the first one in the office, making coffee and putting out the homemade blueberrry muffins. The Co-worker who always asks how your weekend was, smiles & wishes you a good day.
I am your Employee that wishes they could work Overtime but has year-after-year an F.M.L.A. on file because of instead of working overtime, I am having to take off work to deal with the Skin Grafts, Re-Sections, Infusions, Transfusions, Surgical Biopsies & the Chemo/Rad treatments I am receiving.
I am your Neighbor who works in my garden over the weekend and brings over fresh tomatos, cucumbers and rosemary, that I had extra's of to share.
I am the Person in front of you in line, fumbling for my Starbucks Gold Card and stuttering out my order while wishing the Baristas a good day.
I am the Athlete that can no longer run but takes long walks and does modified Yoga.
I am Daughter/Mother/Sister/Aunt & Friend that pushes through the mental and physical pain each and every morning to get out of bed and participate in this awesome and amazing event called Life!
Having a local Cannabis Collective for Patients allows me to go into a safe and local setting where I am able to speak openly with others who are going through similar issues. I am able to choose Cannabis over Morphine or Percocet which allows me now to be am able to have some control over my Qualitiy of Life. "Buddy's" is fighting this fight for us patients that need their Collective in their lives!
It's all about you, Gail. Never mind the rest of us. You can keep the muffins.
Alas, Le Dude, yet again you've missed the point.
Actually, I think Le Dude hit the nail on the head.
What's absent from this discussion on the pro-MJ side of the fence is any acknowledgement of the potential negative ramifications this issue brings to the community as a whole, and not just the benefits to those who choose to partake.
It would seem that the "Me" generation never really grew up.
Precisely what are the negative ramifications of a regulated marijuana dispensary located in an industrial park on the far side of 101?
Hardin, its been going on, legally in CA, for 14 years now. What community/city has suffered over these past 14 years because of it? I know there's plenty of ooga booga scare tactics about what MIGHT happen, but since this has been going on in so many cities for so many years, why haven't we seen any of these negative predictions come true? You can only say the world will end today so many times before people start to realize the messenger may be wrong. Also, since its so readily avail on the black market for the past 30-40 years to anyone who wants it, surely some of these doom/gloom predictions can be seen in some city somewhere...if the doom/gloom was actually true.
I'm more concerned with alcohols negative affects on a society than pot.
We can compare body counts if you would like.
"Precisely what are the negative ramifications of a regulated marijuana dispensary located in an industrial park on the far side of 101?"
"What community/city has suffered over these past 14 years because of it? "
Um, argument from ignorance doesn't work:
That aside, I take from your statements above that your position is that use of MJ as medicine has no negative qualities, that it has no side effects, and that essentially there is no other side to this coin for the commmunity as a whole.
Thanks for proving my point from my last post.
Let's remember that the burden of proof is for those who seek to change the rules for MJ, to provide it an unprecedented status as a drug base medicine that is exempt from following the same rules and regulations that all other drug based medicines currently follow.
You need to prove the positive, that MJ is safe and effective as medicine, and if/when you do, then justify MJ's exemption from existing regulations for medicine.
I am looking at all my prescription medications and EVERY single one of them has a warning about "side effects". What prescription medication doesnt. It just to whom the person who is taking the medication, is the side effects worth the relief. As MJ has been around longer than most RXD's, most are pretty aware of the side effects and the doctors do go over these with the patients. Just like any other RXD!
Excellent observation. Now Hardin will make you sorry for it with an onslaught of remarks in which your comment and all the others are copied, refuted (he thinks) and followed up with multiple web links. The gist of it is that he doesn't believe in the integrity or usefulness of *anything* that hasn't been officially certified and sanctified by the State.
Then you and others will make perfectly reasonable rebuttals. Then the process repeats itself.
peace love: the story says "updated" at the top. It's pretty clear to most readers. And your oversensitivity to the widely accepted term "pot club" makes me think you might be getting paranoid about this issue.
Finally, siding with Lucero's political bid based on his performance in Mt View is really, really dumb.
Yes, hardin, I couldn't find any actual societal harm either. We're on the same page now.
On average, about 110,000 Americans die each year as a result of taking prescription medication as directed. To date, no one has ever died from consuming marijuana.
Again, where is the harm to society, or the individual, in using marijuana? It has been proven safer than milk.
"I am looking at all my prescription medications and EVERY single one of them has a warning about "side effects". What prescription medication doesnt. It just to whom the person who is taking the medication, is the side effects worth the relief. As MJ has been around longer than most RXD's, most are pretty aware of the side effects and the doctors do go over these with the patients. Just like any other RXD!"
Agreed, every prescription medication has side effects that are noted on the containers. That's why prescription medicines require a prescription from a doctor. That's why prescription medicines are distributed by a pharmacy, and not on the candy aisle in the grocery store.
And that's why Medicinal Marijuana should be treated like any other prescribed medication: with a prescription, through a pharmacy.
>>That's why prescription medicines are distributed by a pharmacy, and not on the candy aisle in the grocery store.<<
Plse tell me which grocery store you shop at as it would be sooo much easier to pick up my MJ medication there...if its local!!
>>And that's why Medicinal Marijuana should be treated like any other prescribed medication: with a prescription, through a pharmacy.<<
Actually, that is what Cannabis Collectives are at this point in time. Certain Rxds I am unable to have filled at some locations so i am referred to the supplier that carries that RXD.
I am sure that your Prozac has more side effects than my MJ prescription does...but im sure you'll has a comment for that as well. Carry on...
Hardin, I'm glad cannabis is as benign as your opinions (of 1).
When you have prop 215 all re-written as you would like to see it, please submit it for the vote, but until then, we'll keep it as is; just as how the voters approved it.
The voters approved to ban gay marriage and to not support Spanish in Schools. Can we keep those props too?
Drugs are like religion. We don't really need either one, but many people are much happier with. The harm it does is balanced by the good it does.
"Actually, that is what Cannabis Collectives are at this point in time. Certain Rxds I am unable to have filled at some locations so i am referred to the supplier that carries that RXD."
"When you have prop 215 all re-written as you would like to see it, please submit it for the vote, but until then, we'll keep it as is; just as how the voters approved it."
Prop 215 passed with just over 50% of votes in favor...
In other words, Prop 215 has a mandate in California, like George Bush had a mandate to be president, again.
Hardin: Your Birther-like intransigence is tiring. Prop 215 had over 50% of the vote *14 years ago.* Today, support *nationwide* for medical cannabis is over 70%. In Santa Clara County, which had one of the highest rates of support even 14 years ago, support must be in the 80-90% range.
Prescription drugs require prescriptions because they are dangerous. Used as directed, they kill over 100,000 Americans per year. Cannabis, by contrast, is not dangerous. The death toll after 10,000 years of use remains essentially zero. No one seriously debates this except federal agents and the ignorant.
You claim that dispensaries bring negative effects but you refuse to cite any source for that contention. The San Francisco Police Chief and the Los Angeles Police Chief have both stated publicly that cannabis dispensaries are NOT causally related to any increase in crime. What is the source of your irrational fear?
Note to the MV Voice: I have now had several comments disappear from this thread. Any explanations?
"You claim that dispensaries bring negative effects but you refuse to cite any source for that contention. The San Francisco Police Chief and the Los Angeles Police Chief have both stated publicly that cannabis dispensaries are NOT causally related to any increase in crime."
These are just a sampling of links that came back from a Google Search that took me all of 5 minutes to do: "marijuana dispensary crime"
But this is beside the point. You are basing your argument on the absence of proof, when what you really need to do is support it with evidence of proof.
"impatience with ambiguity" comes to mind. In the rush to get marijuana accepted as medicine, you and others have run roughshod over the very process for validating your case.
Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't make it kosher.
Merely calling marijuana "medicine" doesn't make it so.
"Prop 215 passed with just over 50% of votes in favor...
In other words, Prop 215 has a mandate in California, like George Bush had a mandate to be president, again."
You just jumped the shark, argument wise.
Done and done.
Question for Matt Lucero.....can you provide a list the top 5 or 10 illnesses suffered by your 1000+ members? I don't believe that even a small majority of these people are sick....I think your customers are (for the most part) a bunch of stoner losers but I'd at least be open minded enough to have a look at the numbers if you have them.
Correlation does not prove causation: Web Link
See? I can play that silly game, too.
To reiterate, both the Los Angeles and the San Francisco Police Chiefs have stated flatly that cannabis dispensaries are NOT causally linked to an increase in crime. The fact that some are getting robbed does not prove they are any more of a danger than any other type of business. Banks get robbed at higher rates than cannabis dispensaries. Why are you not demanding a moratorium on banks? Why are you not demanding that 7-Elevens "prove" they don't cause problems before allowing them in your neighborhood?
Although Hardin ignores the evidence, cannabis is the most studied plant on earth with tens of thousands of medical studies showing its benefits and relative safety. The Federal Government has deliberately suppressed research for decades even though a judge at the DEA ruled *over twenty years ago* that marijuana is "safer than many foods we commonly consume" and "has a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States."
The burden of proof should fall to those who would deny a natural and safe plant to the millions of sick and suffering patients (approximately 400,000 of whom have an official doctor's recommendation) who use it daily.
BTW, Hardin, Obama's birth certificate is here: Web Link
marijuana smokers are the next generation
people need to really get over it
Peacelove makes a good point: 7-Elevens are magnets for armed robberies, as has been demonstrated here quite recently. Additionally, they sell alcoholic beverages, a well-known cause of violent crime and auto fatalities, and acetominaphen, the leading cause of catastrophic liver failure in the USA. Held to the same standards as medical marijuana dispensaries, they'd be shut down in a New York minute.
And then there's the Monte Carlo...
Don't miss out on the discussion!
Sign up to be notified of new comments on this topic.
Post a comment
Posting an item on Town Square is simple and requires no registration. Just complete this form and hit "submit" and your topic will appear online.
Please be respectful and truthful in your postings so Town Square will continue to be a thoughtful gathering place for sharing community information
We prefer that you use your real name, but you may use any "member" name you wish.
Select your neighborhood or school community: * Not sure?
- Bailey Park
- Blossom Valley
- Castro City
- Cuesta Park
- Jackson Park
- Monta Loma
- North Bayshore
- North Whisman
- Old Mountain View
- Rengstorff Park
- Rex Manor
- Shoreline West
- St. Francis Acres
- Stierlin Estates
- Sylvan Park
- The Crossings
- Waverly Park
- Whisman Station
- another community
Verification code: *
Enter the verification code exactly as shown, using capital and lowercase letters, in the multi-colored box.
Standardized Test Prep: When to Start and Whom to Hire?
By John Raftrey and Lori McCormick | 2 comments | 1,578 views
Finger Food and a Blood Lite?
By Laura Stec | 0 comments | 1,186 views
Giants Win! Couples Can, Too
By Chandrama Anderson | 0 comments | 693 views
Home & Real Estate
Shop Mountain View
Send News Tips
Circulation & Delivery
Palo Alto Online
© 2014 Mountain View Online
All rights reserved.