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About this blog: So much is right — and wrong — about what is happening in Palo Alto. In this blog I want to discuss all that with you. I know many residents care about this town, and I want to explore our collective interests to help ...  (More)

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Palo Alto: an “all-electric city”? Such a quandary for me

Uploaded: Aug 19, 2022
Palo Alto City Council is pushing hard to have this city become “all-electric.” It is an attempt to slow down global climate change. It sounds great, but . . .

it is an expensive undertaking for taxpayers and property owners and will require major improvements to the city’s transmission and delivery systems. Can we afford it? And will it make much of a dent globally? Or should we even care about that?

I am, as a result, in a what-to-do quandary.

The projected costs to electrify the city are still very fluid, but early indications show hefty spending will be required. The projected cost, according to a recent Daily Post article and based, in part, on a report from the city’s Utility Commission, would require:

• Upgrading the grid to handle a larger load of electricity, costing between $30 to $75 million. Right now, the city’s transmission lines and transformers can’t handle an increase in use by residents and businesses. The city’s Utilities Advisory Commission announced these numbers in a November 2020 report.

• The city will have to remove 124 miles of decommissioned gas lines, at an estimated cost of $11 to $54 million during a 10-year period. I am not sure why these lines have to be removed, but that is what the Utilities Department is calling for.

• Utility workers would spend up to 801,166 hours in this electrical upgrade and gas line decommissioning project. I don’t know how those hours were determined or how much that comes to – it would depend on the prevailing wages at the time.

Also apart from being an all-electric community, the City Council is considering providing fiber to the home with approximately a $100 million cost, plus monthly charges to residents who participate. Fiber delivery to the premises has been under consideration for years, but now there is renewed enthusiasm from supporters to get the city to fund it. However, ATT is advertising that it provides fiber to Palo Alto homes right now, although I don’t know if the quality or residential charges would be the same as what the city is planning.

Can the city, and, ultimately, we residents, afford all these additional costs -- along with increasing utility usage rates each year? It’s easy to say let’s go all-electric, but we residents will have to pay for much of the project. Plus the cost of electricity is high, and the more we use, the higher the rate we will have to pay. Call it a Catch-22.

A new rule adopted recently by the City Council, effective Jan. 1, 2023, would require homeowners to replace a natural gas water heater with an electric heat pump if the gas heater is not working properly -- or buy only an electric one when remodeling. If you need a hook-up for your pool, spa or outdoor grill, it will have to be electric, not gas. And any granny unit must be all-electric. These are all pricey. The rule also states electric appliances will be required for all new offices, stores and restaurants.

It seems the city now has the cart before the horse. It is demanding all electric for many businesses and individuals, when its own Utilities Department is saying it can’t yet handle all the new demands. I was told city engineers are working hard on the provision problem and in two years we may have greater availability. So, logically to me, if the city wants to go all-electric, it must upgrade its system first. At the very least, the Utilities Department should have a say in the rate at which mandated electrical appliances must be introduced.

Why not just use more renewable energy, some ask? So far, energy from wind and solar represent only 10 to 15 percent of the actual electricity used in this country, according to an expert previously associated with SRI. At the very least, he states, we need to quickly double that amount -- along with building more nuclear plants because that can also be a virtually carbon-free electricity source. That won’t happen this year -- or next.

And now back to my quandary. We have a climate crisis in this country and on this earth. We have to stop our dependencies on fossil fuels in whatever way we can. We are facing a crisis, but unfortunately the public’s interest on climate has been waning recently. For example, the public’s top concern in the November election is inflation, polls show.

Despite the high heat and raging rivers and more violent storms the world is encountering, some people remain placid and are not yet alarmed. That needs to change.

Palo Alto is parading on in its quest to go all electric, a noble purpose, but we also need to be realistic about it
Community.
What is it worth to you?

Comments

Posted by Bystander, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood,
on Aug 19, 2022 at 2:29 pm

Bystander is a registered user.

Let's see.

The City as well as the State is encouraging everyone to buy electric vehicles. Where is all this added electricity coming from?

It seems to me that at least once a week we hear of a power outage in Palo Alto due to a long list of things, balloons, downed trees, broken branch limbs, squirrels, geese, gulls, birds, etc. These happen at almost any time of day and any time during the year. How can people charge their EVs without a reliable power source? How can we be so susceptible to power outages and yet the City wants us to give up any other source of power?

If the City were to at least put the powerlines underground it would stop some if not most of these outages and that would at least help. Oh some may say it will cost too much. Yet it will cost a similar sum to dig up all the gas lines!

Can we please get some common sense. Palo Alto has sadly lost the plot, as they say across the pond. It is evident that Palo Alto can't arrange a piss up in a brewery, to steal another phrase from across the pond.


Posted by Neal, a resident of Community Center,
on Aug 19, 2022 at 3:56 pm

Neal is a registered user.

Does the CC really think many people are going to replace a broken gas water heater with an electric heat pump without the city paying for the electrical upgrade? The permitting process alone is a nightmare in PA.


Posted by Leslie Willoughby, a resident of another community,
on Aug 19, 2022 at 3:59 pm

Leslie Willoughby is a registered user.

Yes, change is costly, and I would add one more question to your list. That is, if the city of Palo Alto does not begin to electrify now, what are the potential longterm costs - not only in dollars, but also injuries, diseases and deaths from avoidable increases in the existing global heating? The number of $Billion climate disasters keeps increasing in frequency and intensity, and if they don't happen at home in Palo Alto, we still bear a cost in terms of FEMA response, states of emergency, supply chain delays, etc. On a grand scale, research shows that the cost of climate calming is far less than the cost of future damage under a business as usual model. [ see Web Link


Posted by Leslie Willoughby, a resident of another community,
on Aug 19, 2022 at 3:59 pm

Leslie Willoughby is a registered user.

Yes, change is costly, and I would add one more question to your list. That is, if the city of Palo Alto does not begin to electrify now, what are the potential longterm costs - not only in dollars, but also injuries, diseases and deaths from avoidable increases in the existing global heating? The number of $Billion climate disasters keeps increasing in frequency and intensity, and if they don't happen at home in Palo Alto, we still bear a cost in terms of FEMA response, states of emergency, supply chain delays, etc. On a grand scale, research shows that the cost of climate calming is far less than the cost of future damage under a business as usual model. [ see Web Link


Posted by Terry Gilliam, a resident of Mountain View,
on Aug 19, 2022 at 4:10 pm

Terry Gilliam is a registered user.

We own an EV for local driving but for longer, extended trips we drive a gas-powered vehicle as there is always a gas station within reasonable proximity.

On the home front, our barbeque grill runs on propane and is attached to a gas line we had installed specifically for this purpose.

We also use a charcoal/wood chip burning Weber kettle for smoking.

There is no such thing as an 'electric barbeque' and we will never go fully electric as our Viking stove also runs on gas.

If Palo Alto were to enforce all-electric, residential utilities, there will be plenty of disgruntled residents.

In the meantime, fire-up that grill (wood or gas) and toss a rib-eye on it.


Posted by Mondoman, a resident of Green Acres,
on Aug 19, 2022 at 6:32 pm

Mondoman is a registered user.

I look forward to the City paying to remodel our laundry room to make enough room for a city-funded heat-pump water heater. Sadly, that's probably decades away as we just bought a replacement gas water heater recently.

This reminds me of the latest CA low-flush toilet fiasco. Just when industry had finally developed a fully-functioning low-flush pressure-assisted toilet that uses only 1.6 gallons per flush, CA (and WA and CO) made it illegal to sell them here and lowered the maximum allowable flush to 1.3 gpf. Thus, people now buy the 1.6 gpf tank outside of California, and have it privately shipped to their CA address. Strangely, it's legal to sell the toilet bowl base in CA (because it does not determine the flush volume). I suspect there are "toilet tank mules" who will supply Californians via Nevada in a less complicated but more expensive way.

We in California show our hubris by acting as if we can limit global greenhouse gas levels, when the truth is that as goes China, so goes the world on this.


Posted by Pat Markevitch, a resident of Downtown North,
on Aug 20, 2022 at 12:16 am

Pat Markevitch is a registered user.

This all or nothing mantra is really annoying. When the time comes I will replace my gas heater with an electric one as well as the furnace. I am happy to have an electric stove but really, leave my gas cooktop alone! Everything is so extreme, we need to come closer to the middle.


Posted by Sherry Listgarten, a resident of Greenmeadow,
on Aug 20, 2022 at 3:00 pm

Sherry Listgarten is a registered user.

Hey Diana. I love that you are writing about this! It's definitely not a small thing to overhaul our energy systems to reduce the damage from global warming. But imo it is inevitable that we will do so because the alternative is much worse.

My comment has to be short, so a few questions/comments.

1. US electricity in 2021 was 20% renewable with another 19% from nuclear, for almost 40% low-emission. California was 34% renewable and 52% low-emission (which in CA includes nuclear and large hydro).

2. The water heater replacement rule is only for “when water heaters are replaced as part of a residential addition and/or alteration project".

3. Did you talk with someone who said that the Utility Department was not consulted about this building code update?

4. I think the gas decommissioning is about safety, though I'd have to check.

I think Palo Alto is moving pretty conservatively here, actually. They have ruled out several other options for now because of cost effectiveness, but the economics of electrification will be improving as adoption and the skilled workforce increases.

FWIW, I agree with you on fiber, I think that was a good idea 10-20 years ago, but now? Why would our utility take on that headache when they already have enough to do?

Anyway, thanks for the discussion on this.

P.S. @Pat, gas stoves use very little gas in our homes. I think to the extent the city cares about them, it's only because they cannot afford to maintain all of the gas infrastructure just so that residents can use a tiny amount for gas stoves. Maybe there are other options. Your goal to replace your other appliances with electric as they “burn out" is fantastic!


Posted by Larry, a resident of Downtown North,
on Aug 20, 2022 at 6:43 pm

Larry is a registered user.

And all this to discourage the use of natural gas which, per CPAU's own web site, has been carbon-neutral since 2013. So is it carbon-neutral or not? If it turns out our gas is not actually carbon neutral as advertised, then I think we are due a refund for the offsets we all have been paying for. Wait a minute, aren't we *already* owed a court-ordered refund for our gas purchases?

I also find it interesting that the City wants us to vote to allow them to pocket the profits from gas sales, while at the same time they are encouraging the elimination of that very revenue source. Go figure. Yet one more reason to vote against the utility transfer tax...


Posted by Cal Devers, a resident of Barron Park,
on Aug 20, 2022 at 8:36 pm

Cal Devers is a registered user.

"There is no such thing as an 'electric barbeque'..."

And there never will be.

Wood (or gas) + smoke = Q


Posted by Gary Belkin, a resident of Embarcadero Oaks/Leland,
on Aug 21, 2022 at 8:30 am

Gary Belkin is a registered user.

"It's definitely not a small thing to overhaul our energy systems to reduce the damage from global warming. But imo it is inevitable that we will do so because the alternative is much worse."

@Sherry Listgarten...

The truth is that any modest efforts we make in the United States to stem emissions will be dwarfed by what the rest of the world does and the recently passed climate change act in the Senate (dubbed the Inflation Reduction Act) will do nothing to stop China, India, and Africa from burning fossil fuels to grow their economies.

The goal to reduce carbon emissions 40% from 2005 levels by 2030 in the U.S. is commendable but what about the aforementioned countries and continents who are disregarding sound environmental reforms?

If they cannot be regulated, then the only option is a global boycott from buying their goods and to hit these polluting countries where it hurts...in the pocketbook.

In our household, we do not buy any products that are manufactured in China, India, or Africa...only the United States, Germany, Japan, South Korea, and Sweden as their products are also better made.



Posted by Chelsea Hammond, a resident of Community Center,
on Aug 21, 2022 at 8:48 am

Chelsea Hammond is a registered user.

We also refuse to buy anything 'Made in China' including India which now owns British Leyland (automobiles).

As for Africa, the only manufactured goods that I am familiar with are their products from mining and textiles.

I have never seen a high-tech product that said 'Made in Africa' or from countries like Camaroon, the Congo, Ghana, Nigeria etc.

Had they remained under European colonial rule perhaps they would have been more advanced.


Posted by Harold Raines, a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive,
on Aug 21, 2022 at 9:50 am

Harold Raines is a registered user.

The PRC is one of the largest steel producers in the world and steel production requires the burning of coal.

The redesigned SF-Oakland Bay Bridge was built with Chinese-manufactured steel.

China and India also burn coal for residential heating.

The combined population of both China and India far exceeds the population of the United States and they will continue burning coal because they do not care about the environmental impacts.

Concurring with the others who do not buy China-India manufactured goods as these purchases are indirectly contributing to further global warming.


Posted by Ronen, a resident of Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle,
on Aug 21, 2022 at 10:10 am

Ronen is a registered user.

So many comments about global warming being something we can't control because of what other countries will do - especially China.

Global warming IS a global problem and we need global action. Which is why things like the Paris climate accord and the IPCC process are so important. However, the US is one of the largest global emitters and THE richest one. If we don't cut our emissions who will?

For those that are crying foul about China, their per-capita emissions are dramatically lower than ours. They are also the largest absolute emitters right now, and must do more on climate. However, China has been making massive strides on clean energy production (Web Link . They are not where they need to be, but neither are we. We all need to do more.

Political will building starts at the local level and rich communities like Palo Alto and Menlo Park must lead the way. In Menlo Park we are already all-electric. Come on in. The water is fine.


Posted by Ronen, a resident of Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle,
on Aug 21, 2022 at 10:12 am

Ronen is a registered user.

The link broke in my last comment. Here it is again:
Web Link


Posted by Lawrence Townsend, a resident of Charleston Meadows,
on Aug 21, 2022 at 11:28 am

Lawrence Townsend is a registered user.

"For those that are crying foul about China, their per-capita emissions are dramatically lower than ours."

^ The current population of China is 1,451,129,474 as of Friday, August 19, 2022, based on Worldometer elaboration of the latest United Nations data...a far cry from the U.S. population of 365 million.

Most Chinese cannot afford a car and ride bikes or use public transportation.

Their per capita lower emissions is countered by the massive amounts of hydrocarbons generated from manufacturing.

The Chinese government is not environmentally or ecologically minded.

They are a socialist-capitalist society driven by global trade where money (not the air) remains king.


Posted by The Global View, a resident of Crescent Park,
on Aug 21, 2022 at 12:04 pm

The Global View is a registered user.

> I have never seen a high-tech product that said 'Made in Africa' or from countries like Camaroon, the Congo, Ghana, Nigeria etc.

> Had they remained under European colonial rule perhaps they would have been more advanced.

^ So true as the majority of African countries have been mired in poverty, illitetacy, terrorism, and political unrest since achieving independence from their European benefactors.

In the western hemisphere, Haiti has been a free country since the 1806 slave uprising and how far have they progressed?

We can also add Liberia in Africa which was founded by freed American slaves in the 1800s.

Of all the former colonies, only Canada has made progressive headways in terms of educational and industrial advancements.

India does not count because there is still a high illiteracy and poverty rate among its general population.

Democracy does not work for people cannot read and despite its flaws, subjugation under foreign rule is oftentimes the best alternative.


Posted by Mondoman, a resident of Green Acres,
on Aug 21, 2022 at 12:17 pm

Mondoman is a registered user.

I think many of us haven't realized how massive is the economic growth China has achieved for its population over the past 20 years. For 2020 China's per capita GDP was up to $10,500, slightly higher(!) than Russia's. Norway and Switzerland are around $90k, the US around $70k, Canada and Germany around $50k, Japan and Italy around $40-35k, the poorer EU countries around $25-20k.

China's per capita greenhouse emissions are already about the same as Germany's in the middle of the EU range, while US per capita emissions are double that, slightly lower than Australia and Canada. By 2030, China will have become the largest historical (total) greenhouse emitter and will very likely have passed the US in per capita greenhouse emissions as well.

China's per capita GDP should reach the lower EU range by 2030; for all intents and purposes it will then be a (lower end) first-world country. However, China's leaders have repeatedly said they will not even level off their yearly growth in greenhouse emissions until 2030 at the earliest. That's why global greenhouse gas levels in the atmosphere will track with what China, India etc do, not with what the US does at this point. Unless the rest of the world stops buying Chinese products, it's hard to imagine Xi's government changing these growth at all costs policies.


Posted by Mondoman, a resident of Green Acres,
on Aug 21, 2022 at 12:22 pm

Mondoman is a registered user.

Re: "Democracy does not work for people cannot read and despite its flaws, subjugation under foreign rule is oftentimes the best alternative. "

Interesting that the flourishing successful democracy in less-literate India "doesn't count", yet Putin-style subjugation of land, culture and language is celebrated. :(

Perhaps traveling the world would be a useful education, no matter the greenhouse emissions generated...


Posted by Tyler Mann, a resident of Downtown North,
on Aug 21, 2022 at 12:30 pm

Tyler Mann is a registered user.

"In our household, we do not buy any products that are manufactured in China, India, or Africa...only the United States, Germany, Japan, South Korea, and Sweden as their products are also better made."

"The combined population of both China and India far exceeds the population of the United States and they will continue burning coal because they do not care about the environmental impacts."

"The Chinese government is not environmentally or ecologically minded."

"Concurring with the others who do not buy China-India manufactured goods as these purchases are indirectly contributing to further global warming."

"...global greenhouse gas levels in the atmosphere will track with what China, India etc do, not with what the US does at this point. Unless the rest of the world stops buying Chinese products, it's hard to imagine Xi's government changing these growth at all costs policies."

^ Exactly...why fatten the wallets of countries who are blatantly contributing to global warming with no remorse?

Let them perish and go bankrupt.

Best to spend a little more and buy environmentally friendly products whenever possible.

Lastly, how many commenters are using Chinese-made Apple iPhones, iPads, and MacBooks?

Your environmental credibility remains questionable as there are other viable options.


Posted by Tyler Mann, a resident of Downtown North,
on Aug 21, 2022 at 12:41 pm

Tyler Mann is a registered user.

> Interesting that the flourishing successful democracy in less-literate India "doesn't count" yet Putin-style subjugation of land, culture and language is celebrated. :("

@Mondoman

India is currently being ruled by a heavily nationalistic anti-Muslim government (aka flourishing democracy) under Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

If that is a 'flourishing democracy', then India is no different than Putin's Russian 'successful democracy' except that Russia has a much higher literacy rate which indicates something is awry.


Posted by Mondoman, a resident of Green Acres,
on Aug 21, 2022 at 1:17 pm

Mondoman is a registered user.

@Tyler Mann
It's easy for us far away to oversimplify from a few articles we read in the New York Times. India is a very large, very complex place. Democracy is messy (remember ostracism in Classical Athens was basically just Tribal Council on "Survivor") and includes all sorts of the formal and informal organizations and groupings that do indeed flourish in India. Putin by contrast has worked consistently and ruthlessly to eliminate all the civil society organizations and individuals he doesn't control, and is now even working to eliminate the Ukrainian language and history!

Again, travel to a place provides so much more information than even a number of stories. Perhaps that's why we still have ambassadors and embassies in other countries rather than just Zoom connections to their governments.


Posted by Grant Thompson, a resident of Stanford,
on Aug 21, 2022 at 2:27 pm

Grant Thompson is a registered user.

"Perhaps that's why we still have ambassadors and embassies in other countries rather than just Zoom connections to their governments."

@Mondoman...
Consulates and embassies worldwide regardless of country are also havens for clandestine activities such as spying, trade/military secret exchanges, money laundering etc. operating under the protection of diplomatic immunity.

They are ostensible operations disguised as diplomatic endeavors.


Posted by Bystander, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood,
on Aug 22, 2022 at 9:19 am

Bystander is a registered user.

Once again, a huge power outage affected Palo Alto overnight.

Our power is unreliable at best. Power is needed overnight for many things such as updating computer programs and charging EVs.


Posted by Garry Wyndham, a resident of Midtown,
on Aug 22, 2022 at 10:47 am

Garry Wyndham is a registered user.

When the city of Palo Alto's permitting process for the installation of a home Tesla charger becomes easier and less painful than root canal surgery, then, and only then will I trust them to implement more ambitious climate goals.


Posted by Garry Wyndham, a resident of Midtown,
on Aug 22, 2022 at 10:47 am

Garry Wyndham is a registered user.

When the city of Palo Alto's permitting process for the installation of a home Tesla charger becomes easier and less painful than root canal surgery, then, and only then will I trust them to implement more ambitious climate goals.


Posted by Taylor Parkins, a resident of Downtown North,
on Aug 22, 2022 at 11:25 am

Taylor Parkins is a registered user.

Who cares about Tesla home charging stations and their presumptuous owners...many of whom are both reckless and arrogant drivers?

I'd rather have a small underground petrol reserve for my gas-powered vehicles.


Posted by Online Name, a resident of Embarcadero Oaks/Leland,
on Aug 22, 2022 at 11:59 am

Online Name is a registered user.

Yes, this is all-or-nothing mantra is idiotic but unfortunately typical of Palo Alto. Today 3200 people were without electric power. How about undergrounding BEFORE anything else so grandiose?


Posted by Matt Passell, a resident of Charleston Meadows,
on Aug 22, 2022 at 5:40 pm

Matt Passell is a registered user.

Great to read all these comments, as this is a critically important conversation.

Yes, upgrading the grid is expensive, and the alternative is worse. There is no short-term weather market. In other words, we won't be able to buy down the temperature in the future no matter how much money we save now. We must invest now to avoid the worst impacts of climate change.

Induction stoves are better than gas, which are better than older electric stoves. Induction heats up faster, is cleaner, can be more precisely controlled, and is much safer. There are a lot of people emotionally tied to gas, propane, etc... just like many people used to like smoking cigarettes. Now that we know how harmful methane is to the environment, we need to both incentivize people who are responsible enough to electrify, and eventually stop providing methane (natural gas) services, of course allowing people time to transition.

The city's grid upgrade can happen in parallel to building electrification. It will need to be managed, but waiting until the upgrade is complete will lose precious time, releasing more methane into the environment. Many houses can go all electric without an electric panel upgrade. The key is to manage the peak load, not using all the electric appliances at the same time. With a little smart technology, the electric dryer can share a circuit with the electric car. If the dryer runs for an hour or two one evening, the car still has plenty of time to add enough charge. That's just one example of using our electricity wisely, and a lot less expensive than a panel upgrade.

For those interested in renewables in California, check out the ISO Today app, where you can see the percentage of demand provided by renewables throughout the day. Also note the big change in when we should use the most electricity. It used to be in the evening, but now the most renewable electricity is available in the middle of the day (10 AM to 2 PM).


Posted by Andy, a resident of Community Center,
on Aug 22, 2022 at 6:30 pm

Andy is a registered user.

Diana,
I am happy to see you grappling with this important topic and with what we can do about climate change. I think it's something so many of us are concerned about, and I love having this really meaningful way to act.
And yes, it is meaningful. We in the US are still the largest per-capita emitters of green-house gasses in the world, and our home and building emissions account four about 1/3 of our total.
Other countries are acting too, including China, which invested roughly $266 billion in 2021 on what Bloomberg described as the “energy transition". By comparison, the United States invested $114 billion on the same items.
As one reader noted, our water heaters and heating systems are the biggest problem, accounting for around 1/3 of our greenhouse gasses. So that's a great place to start. We recently replaced both, and we are very happy with our new appliances. We will get to the stove soon, even though emissions are smaller, because of new studies that really clarify the connection with asthma (we have several asthma sufferers in the household.) I applaud the cities efforts!


Posted by Anonymous, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis,
on Aug 22, 2022 at 9:22 pm

Anonymous is a registered user.

Inctemental change makes sense since technical advancements will keep occuring.
Our politicians ceding to China literally endangers us.


Posted by Mondoman, a resident of Green Acres,
on Aug 22, 2022 at 11:48 pm

Mondoman is a registered user.

@Matt Passell
I believe the goal of replacing residential gas with electricity is not to reduce methane emissions but rather to reduce emissions of the slower-acting CO2, as our gas appliances having burned almost all of the methane emit only insignificant amounts of methane. A 2019 study ( Web Link ) based on in-home measurements found that about 0.038% of methane consumed by household gas appliances was released to the atmosphere. Extrapolating to the whole country, that would account for about 0.01% of total US greenhouse emissions. Thus, methane released by household gas appliances is not a significant issue. This greatly lessens the urgency of converting away from gas.

Sharing a circuit between an EV charger and electric dryer seems great, but in practice runs into electrical code issues (e.g. code says "An outlet(s) installed for the purpose of charging electric vehicles shall be supplied by a separate branch circuit. This circuit shall have no other outlets.") Thus, in practice electrification will require substantial electrical work even in houses that already have enough total amps coming in.

I for one would welcome the city developing and publishing "model conversion scenarios" that show the house and grid infrastructure changes/upgrades needed for common living situations. For example, single-family house with 1970-era 100A electrical service and gas major appliances, 6-unit 1960s-era apartment building with gas heating and water heaters, 2000s single-family house with super-high efficiency gas heating/water, and so forth.

Without such realistic descriptions of the costs of changes required and any ongoing savings, many will rightly continue to doubt claims that electrification won't result in big cost increases.


Posted by Mondoman, a resident of Green Acres,
on Aug 23, 2022 at 12:19 am

Mondoman is a registered user.

@Andy
There is some good news - because of US reductions in its greenhouse emissions, we are no longer the top per capita emitter, but are now (only :) ) the 11th worst. See World Bank info at Web Link China of course is still massively increasing its yearly emissions as increased coal use overwhelms its efforts in renewables.


Posted by Bette Young, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis,
on Aug 23, 2022 at 7:01 am

Bette Young is a registered user.

Since China and India have no greenhouse emission protocols, it would be globally irresponsible to purchase any manufactured products from their countries regardless of the retail cost benefits.

And this includes Apple which is transferring its iPhone, iPad, and MacBook production from the PRC to India.

America needs to get back on track by building these and other products in the USA even though they will probably cost more.

Why fatten the wallets of rogue countries that are rampantly polluting the world with disregard?

As a house rule, we don't buy any consumer goods ‘Made in China' or India and it feels good to be doing our part from an environmental, political, and moral standpoint.

Samsung (South Korea) covers most of our electronic needs.





Posted by Biff Langely, a resident of Barron Park,
on Aug 23, 2022 at 8:16 am

Biff Langely is a registered user.

The first mistake the U.S. made was establishing diplomatic ties with the PRC (by President Nixon) and eventually disregarding the sovereignty of Taiwan.

The second BIG mistake was encouraging the mass importation of cheaply-manufactured consumer goods from China.

Both endeavors only served to empower and enrichen a struggling country that was essentially a highly populated 3rd world province under Mao Zedong's leadership.

Despite ongoing U S. efforts to clean up its own environmental act, both China and India cannot be expected to do the same because the allure of the dollar sign is far too strong for them to curtail any manufacturing-related air and water pollution.

Looking back, true Communism was never an actual geopolitical threat to the United States once the greenback started making its rounds.


Posted by Andy, a resident of Community Center,
on Aug 23, 2022 at 9:28 am

Andy is a registered user.

@ Mondoman,
Thanks for the updated data. I see that the US is still at @ double the per capita emissions of China. (around 14 metric tons vs. around 7). India is still at 1.8 metric tons per capita. I agree that we certainly need to be worried about the future trajectories, but at this point I think it's fair for the rest of the world to expect some curbing of emissions from us too. Strides that we make here will change the economic incentives as well, with economies of scale continuing to bring costs of renewables down and ushering in more research on new green technologies, such as alternative refrigerants that will have a huge impact in India--a country that will need to ramp up AC use in the face of climate change.


Posted by William Streeter, a resident of Woodside,
on Aug 23, 2022 at 9:37 am

William Streeter is a registered user.

> The Chinese government is not environmentally or ecologically minded.

>> Our politicians ceding to China literally endangers us.

>>> Concurring with the others who do not buy China-India manufactured goods as these purchases are indirectly contributing to further global warming.

>>>> Despite ongoing U S. efforts to clean up its own environmental act, both China and India cannot be expected to do the same because the allure of the dollar sign is far too strong for them to curtail any manufacturing-related air and water pollution.

The kicker..."how many commenters are using Chinese-made Apple iPhones, iPads, and MacBooks?"

^ Not me...but maybe other more steadfast 'eco-minded' advocates?


Posted by staying home, a resident of Crescent Park,
on Aug 23, 2022 at 10:35 am

staying home is a registered user.

[Post removed.]


Posted by Brent Walker, a resident of Los Altos,
on Aug 23, 2022 at 11:04 am

Brent Walker is a registered user.

@staying home

Given Africa's political instability and sanctuary for terrorists + lack of any noteworthy technological advancements, Ms. Hammond may have a point.

The United Nations and World Health Organization has their hands full in helping to bring Africa into the 20th century...even though we are now in the 21st.


Posted by Rand Bacon, a resident of Portola Valley,
on Aug 23, 2022 at 11:20 am

Rand Bacon is a registered user.

The PRC is neither an ally nor friend of the United States and chances are it will never be based on China's global aspirations.

Diplomatic 'song and dance' acts between the West and the PRC are little more than meaningless and insignificant gestures of nothingness.

As a country, we must continue to strive for clean energy and the curtailment of global warming no matter how small the effort is in comparison to the likes of China and India where the bulk of pollution and commerce stems not from the populace but from their manufacturing endeavors and processes.

I concur with the others who advocate not buying any manufactured goods from China or India but am curious...how many here are actually willing to give up their Chinese-made Apple products?

As the old adage goes, "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem".


Posted by Lyle Casey, a resident of Los Altos Hills,
on Aug 23, 2022 at 12:01 pm

Lyle Casey is a registered user.

"...the US is still at @ double the per capita emissions of China. (around 14 metric tons vs. around 7). India is still at 1.8 metric tons per capita."

^ Only because most of the inhabitants in China and India do not own cars.

Their industrial pollution more than makes up for the discrepancies in metric tons of emissions.

Are Americans willing to reduce their households to one car or no car?

Highly unlikely...meanwhile China and India could care less about pollution as long as there is a thriving global market for their cheaply-made products.


Posted by Sam Grich, a resident of Midtown,
on Aug 23, 2022 at 1:29 pm

Sam Grich is a registered user.

The recently passed Inflation Reduction Act will allocate $370B towards green energy tax credits and reduce carbon emissions in the United States by 40% in 2030.

Georgia U.S. Senate candidate and Trump endorsee Herschel Walker has stated during his campaign that everything will be OK because 'our good air' will cover China's highly polluted air and serve as a protective blanket against global warming.

This is a good sign for the future.


Posted by David Fahey, a resident of Menlo Park,
on Aug 23, 2022 at 1:56 pm

David Fahey is a registered user.

[Post removed.]


Posted by Judy Decker, a resident of Los Altos,
on Aug 23, 2022 at 2:11 pm

Judy Decker is a registered user.

[Post removed.]


Posted by Melba Jenkins, a resident of Barron Park,
on Aug 23, 2022 at 2:32 pm

Melba Jenkins is a registered user.

[Post removed.]


Posted by Barbara Bolton, a resident of another community,
on Aug 23, 2022 at 4:17 pm

Barbara Bolton is a registered user.

My mother used to say, "if the electricity goes off, at least we have our gas stove to prepare a meal."

We never opened the refrigerator when the electricity was down and even then, depending on the length of the blackout some frozen items sometimes had to be tossed.

For those who enjoy their Jenn-Air electric ranges, so be it but we will always have a gas stove until they are outlawed.

It beats burning dung like they do in India.


Posted by Chet Walker, a resident of Crescent Park,
on Aug 23, 2022 at 4:35 pm

Chet Walker is a registered user.

> "It beats burning dung like they do in India."
@Barbara Bolton
The American pioneers on their way westward also burned cattle/buffalo dung for cooking as trees and shrubbery were not always present on the trail.

As a Boy Scout, our scoutmaster once sent us out to a pasture to collect 'cow patties' which we in turn used to earn our cooking merit badges.

Depending on its age and dryness, dung works good for outdoor cooking as the residual methane contained within works like charcoal lighter fluid.


Posted by Edward Parker, a resident of Midtown,
on Aug 24, 2022 at 10:48 am

Edward Parker is a registered user.

Until Palo Alto enhances and strengthens its electrical grid system, an all-electric Palo Alto household is just a pipe dream.


Posted by Alan, a resident of Menlo Park: Belle Haven,
on Aug 24, 2022 at 11:43 am

Alan is a registered user.

A few random thoughts:

The money spent on electrifying homes, is not spent on natural gas, equipment that uses natural gas, or the infrastructure that distributes natural gas. This is part of the equation. If Palo Alto seeks to be a pioneer in electrification - it will cost more out of pocket than following old habits; it's expensive to do things early on. However, it's not just additional costs.

Even if the city didn't go "all electric", there's value in upgrading the electrical grid, for more efficient distribution of power. If the right people are involved, the city could be a model for what works - and what doesn't - for electrification. Those lessons learned could be applied elsewhere. Some places need to be test beds for this sort of transformation. Is Palo Alto an appropriate place? It would have to involve a clear commitment to the goal of reducing greenhouse gas emissions, but with appropriate pragmatism. A medium sized city is a speck in overall greenhouse gas production, but as a model can be far more influential (if, and only if, the results inspire others). I think this is where the opportunity lies.

People are forever comparing themselves to China and who is "responsible" for the global warming. This is a "tragedy of the commons" situation, where everyone contributes to the problem, no one wants to do much about it because it will put them at a disadvantage, and everyone has their own rationale as to why the other side is more responsible. The only way out is to find a way to "win"
that solves the problem. Who is up for that?






Posted by Edward Parker, a resident of Midtown,
on Aug 24, 2022 at 12:28 pm

Edward Parker is a registered user.

"Global warming IS a global problem and we need global action. Which is why things like the Paris climate accord and the IPCC process are so important."

^ Global warming is obviously not a concern to the eight countries that did not sign the Paris Climate Accord...Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Libya, Angola, Sudan, Yemen, and Eritrea.

Then again, these eight predominantly Muslim countries already have naturally warm climates and are not noted for anything exceptional other than political strife and global terrorism.


Posted by Gerri Ulrich, a resident of Community Center,
on Aug 24, 2022 at 4:29 pm

Gerri Ulrich is a registered user.

"I concur with the others who advocate not buying any manufactured goods from China or India but am curious...how many here are actually willing to give up their Chinese-made Apple products?"

"As the old adage goes, "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem"."

^ As much as I like my Apple iPhone 13, I have decided not to use it anymore as it was manufactured in China (PRC) and as a personal, patriotic, and environmental consideration on my part I am going to procure a suitable alternative made in another country (i.e. a new Google Pixel or Samsung Galaxy).

I have heard that Apple will be moving much of its production to India but that's not much of an eco-improvement given India's poor environmental track record.


Posted by Mondoman, a resident of Green Acres,
on Aug 25, 2022 at 12:12 am

Mondoman is a registered user.

@Alan
Re: "People are forever comparing themselves to China and who is "responsible" for the global warming. This is a "tragedy of the commons" situation, where everyone contributes to the problem, no one wants to do much about it because it will put them at a disadvantage, and everyone has their own rationale as to why the other side is more responsible. "

I think the situation is somewhat different; rather than everyone doing nothing, we have a situation where many are making measured progress, some are doing nothing, and one big player is actively making things worse with the aid of power tools :)
How do we get the power tool user to slow down when they believe they will lose political power by doing so?

Alan, do you have concrete ideas for a way to "win" globally that we can implement in the US? So far, leading by example is not working. Putting massive import tariffs on products according to the greenhouse emissions where they are produced seems like it could have an impact. That is more thinkable now that we have effectively begun a trade war with China, but still seems difficult to pass.


Posted by Claire Bichette, a resident of Professorville,
on Aug 25, 2022 at 7:33 am

Claire Bichette is a registered user.

"Putting massive import tariffs on products according to the greenhouse emissions where they are produced seems like it could have an impact. That is more thinkable now that we have effectively begun a trade war with China, but still seems difficult to pass."

^ Placing massive import tariffs on all Chinese manufactured goods is an excellent idea.


Posted by John Donnelly, a resident of Barron Park,
on Aug 25, 2022 at 9:09 am

John Donnelly is a registered user.

In addition to setting higher tariffs on manufactured goods from the PRC, loyal Americans should also boycott buying anything made in China for a sound reason...the monetary expenditures only benefit China and their cheaply-made goods require regular replacement which in the long run, costs American consumers even more in monetary outlay.

It is a racket that we can easily end by making sound, long-term purchases on manufactured goods that last and have better workmanship.

As for Chinese-made Apple products, even though they are seemingly well-made, I wouldn't be caught dead owning one...not surprisingly, many Apple enthusiasts are totally unaware (or perhaps ignorant) that they are subsidizing a geopolitical enemy that has total disregard for global warming and climate change.


Posted by Clara Wong, a resident of Los Altos,
on Aug 25, 2022 at 9:51 am

Clara Wong is a registered user.

People need to realize that not all Chinese are alike and that the majority of Taiwanese and Hong Kong citizens (of Cantonese descent) do not support or endorse the military and economic actions of the PRC.

The PRC is playing a game of global economic monopoly...first by ceding Hong Kong, a global financial center and in their current efforts to seize Taiwan which is a major manufacturer of computer chips.

Their claims of 'sovereignty' is a gross misnomer.


Posted by Bruce Willoughby, a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive,
on Aug 25, 2022 at 10:24 am

Bruce Willoughby is a registered user.

To curtail the People's Republic of China and their global aspirations, many American corporations will also have to sever their ties with countless Chinese manufacturering companies.

Whether this is possible remains to be seen because American consumers are always out looking for the best deal and prices, even if it means buying substandard merchandise that needs to be replaced on a regular basis.

As a family, we are proud to say that there is not one item in our home that says 'Made in China'...can others say the same?

Or do they even care?


Posted by Terry Beck, a resident of Menlo Park,
on Aug 25, 2022 at 11:35 am

Terry Beck is a registered user.

Buying an EV car is still unaffordable for most Americans as the recently passed Inflation Reduction Act is unrealistic.

The need for lithium (a key ingredient of rechargeable batteries) has raised the average sticker price of an electric vehicle by 14% to $66,000.00 and guess where most of those batteries are made?

While the Inflation Reduction Act includes a$7,500.00 tax credit for new EV purchases, most EVs on the market do not meet the new federal standard for how much of the car's battery must be manufactured in North America.

Another tax credit of $4,000.00 for used EVs applies only to those sold for $25,000.00 or less...and good luck with that.






Posted by Lucinda Jackson, a resident of Barron Park,
on Aug 25, 2022 at 12:16 pm

Lucinda Jackson is a registered user.

"As a family, we are proud to say that there is not one item in our home that says 'Made in China'...can others say the same?

*raising hand* We also adhere to this practice as there is nothing manufactured in China that meets our critical needs (including overpriced and overated Apple products made in the PRC).

"As the old adage goes, "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem"."

While some might argue that boycotting the purchase of Chinese-made goods will impact various American workers (i.e. Apple employees), so be it...buy a Google device instead.


Posted by Lester Chang, a resident of Mountain View,
on Aug 25, 2022 at 1:31 pm

Lester Chang is a registered user.

? People need to realize that not all Chinese are alike and that the majority of Taiwanese and Hong Kong citizens (of Cantonese descent) do not support or endorse the military and economic actions of the PRC.

Ditto...sadly the recent anti-Asian sentiment is also being directed at people of Asian descent who have absolutely no economic connection or political alliances with the recently-arrived Mandarin populace in America.


Posted by Kendall Taylor, a resident of Old Palo Alto,
on Aug 25, 2022 at 1:44 pm

Kendall Taylor is a registered user.

Which is more cost effective over the long term...re-engineering the entire Palo Alto electrical grid or restoring and repairing older gas lines?

Each one will be costly and to whom will it best benefit?

As for misconstruance of the modern day Asian population, having lived and studied in 'the Orient' it does not take an Einstein to differentiate the different Asian ethnicities, nationalities, and languages.

Aren't our children being taught the obvious differences?


Posted by Mondoman, a resident of Green Acres,
on Aug 25, 2022 at 5:36 pm

Mondoman is a registered user.

As others have noted, we'e talking about governments, not ethnicities, here. Just as it would be silly to stereotype "Koreans" based on Kim Jong-Un's regime, the CCP rules many who do not support its actions, and others it would like to rule remain outside its clutches. I welcome Taiwan's and (until recently) Hong Kong's demonstrations of the wrongness of the CCP's claim that democracy can't work in China.

Anti-Asian sentiment has no place in our communities.


Posted by Lorraine Jeffries, a resident of Embarcadero Oaks/Leland,
on Aug 26, 2022 at 7:26 am

Lorraine Jeffries is a registered user.

@Mondoman
There are many Mandarin Chinese residing in the United States who still support the PRC and its geopolitical ambitions.

Resituating here has little to do with pro-American sentiments but rather access to various educational, vocational and housing opportunities unavailable or limited in the Chinese mainland...most are very wealthy as witnessed by the ease and expedience in which they can purchase pricey midpeninsula residential properties.

And unlike other Asian ethnicities in America (i.e. Japanese and Cantonese Americans), they have not fully assimilated into mainstream American culture...remember that gold medal winning Mandarin 'American' freestyle skier who competed for the PRC rather than the United States?

A litmus test...unlike the Cantonese and Japanese Americans who have served proudly in the United States military during times of war, how many Mandarin Chinese 'Americans' would actually take up arms against the PRC?

To date, when was the time you heard of any Mandarin Chinese enlisting in the U.S. armed forces, even during peacetime?

Anti-Asian sentiment (xenophobia) in the United States is not all inclusive.


Posted by James Clarke (USMC ret.), a resident of Barron Park,
on Aug 26, 2022 at 7:54 am

James Clarke (USMC ret.) is a registered user.

" ...how many Mandarin Chinese 'Americans' would actually take up arms against the PRC?"

"To date, when was the time you heard of any Mandarin Chinese enlisting in the U.S. armed forces, even during peacetime?"

@Lorraine Jackson...
All things considered, count your blessings.

Given their past security breaches, trade infringements, Olympic loyalties, and other questionable activities, it is perhaps best that they not be serving in any capacity.


Posted by Frank Jessup, a resident of Los Altos,
on Aug 26, 2022 at 9:04 am

Frank Jessup is a registered user.

Unlike other Asian populaces, Mandarin pressures and an overall sense of entitlement has also crossed over into public school districts including San Francisco, San Dieguito, and Palo Alto.

Many Palo Altans will not forget the Mandarin furor over the proposal to rename Jordan Middle School after Fred Yamamoto, a native-born Palo Alto resident and Japanese-American who gave his life serving in the U.S. Army during World War II.

The Mandarin community in Palo Alto accused the PAUSD of renaming the school after Japanese Imperial Admiral Yamamoto, architect of the Pearl Harbor attack. Seriously?

In San Francisco, two school board members were recalled because they favored a citywide lottery system for admittance to academically prestigous Lowell High School rather than blanket admittance for academically gifted Mandarin high school students.

And the school superintendent of San Dieguito School District (North San Diego) was also dismissed for comments she made regarding the pressures affluent Mandarin residents were making for preferential academic considerations.

[Portion removed.]


Posted by Mondoman, a resident of Green Acres,
on Aug 26, 2022 at 9:57 am

Mondoman is a registered user.

Wow, so much detailed info about the thoughts and beliefs of vaguely-defined people we've never even met or talked to. :( Very disappointing to read this here in our supposedly enlightened modern age...


Posted by Miriam Layne, a resident of Menlo Park,
on Aug 26, 2022 at 9:57 am

Miriam Layne is a registered user.

If the United States as per the recently passed climate bill can successfully reduce its greenhouse emissions 40% by 2030, how big a dent will that make globally while other countries like China, India, and South Africa continue to rampantly pollute the air in order to grow their industrial economies?

While per capita ownership of gas-powered cars in America is far higher than in India or China, their innumerable factories make up for any differences when it comes to producing massive amounts of hydrocarbons.

Coal still remains king in China, India, and South Africa where it is relied upon not only for manufacturing purposes but for meeting domestic needs as well.

In the SF Bay Area, we can continue to do our part while viewing eco-reforms through rose-colored glasses but in terms of the big picture, planet Earth is still stuck behind the eight-ball when it comes to everyone making a concerted effort towards reducing global hydrocarbons.


Posted by Michael Louie, a resident of another community,
on Aug 26, 2022 at 10:21 am

Michael Louie is a registered user.

"...thoughts and beliefs of vaguely-defined people we've never even met or talked to.
@Mondoman

Actions often speak louder than words and any 'vague' references are based solely upon your lack of interaction with a particular and said community.

My impoverished ancestors came from South China (Canton) and worked like dogs in menial jobs (laundry services, restaurants etc.) while trying to establish themselves as worthwhile Chinese American citizens despite the inherent racism of the times.

They did not come to this country inherently wealthy and with the ability to purchase expensive homes in Palo Alto with CASH.

Most followed the traditional American pathway to success and acceptance by cultural assimilation, higher education, and by not rocking the boat.

Mike Louie/Cantonese American


Posted by James Matsumura, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood,
on Aug 26, 2022 at 11:40 am

James Matsumura is a registered user.

@Mondoman...
I echo the words of Michael Louie. My impoverished Issei grandparents came to America with the intention of working and saving money to eventually return to Japan better off financially. They were employed as gardeners and domestics in the wealthier Palo Alto neighborhoods (where the wealthy Mandarin expatriates now flourish) but following the internment during World War II, they were too old to consider returning back to their native homelands.

This concept is also true of current Japanese business professionals who are
assigned management positions in Japanese subsidiaries based in the United States. Most serve a 2 year tenure and then return to Japan because they prefer living in Japan unlike most Mandarins and East Indians who choose to remain in the United States...then again, given the social and political environments of those two countries, who in their right mind would want to return to reside permanently in either India or the PRC?

You are oversimplifying matters as all Asians are not cut from the same cloth.


Posted by Mondoman, a resident of Green Acres,
on Aug 26, 2022 at 12:14 pm

Mondoman is a registered user.

@Michael and James
Apparently I was too polite in my post's wording to convey my point. I was not referring to my own beliefs, but rather referring to a number of earlier posts where the authors presumed to know much about the internal motivations and life experiences of all members of vaguely-defined but presumably large groups of people. I'm not clear exactly what "Mandarin" is supposed to refer to - a pedantic official? Maybe I'm just not hip to the latest ethnic stereotyping :)


Posted by Wanda Yount, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood,
on Aug 26, 2022 at 12:21 pm

Wanda Yount is a registered user.

[Post removed.]


Posted by Stanley Leung, a resident of Mountain View,
on Aug 26, 2022 at 12:50 pm

Stanley Leung is a registered user.

* I'm not clear exactly what "Mandarin" is supposed to refer to - a pedantic official? Maybe I'm just not hip to the latest ethnic stereotyping :)

@Mondoman

FYI...Mandarin (northern China) and Cantonese (southern China) are two different Chinese entities with different languages, different surnames and perhaps more importantly (among Cantonese Americans), different adherences to American geopolitical policies. Their cuisine is also different.

Many of the current Mandarin Chinese residing in the bay area are wealthy business owners, entrepreneurs, and successful medical professionals who have immigrated from the Communist People's Republic of China.

The Cantonese...originally from the former British colony of Hong Kong and other southernmost regions of China were imported to work on the Union Pacific Railroad and countless Cantonese Chinese families have been here since the mid-1800s.

BTW...Mandarin does not apply to tangerines either.



Posted by Lyle Chandler, a resident of Menlo Park,
on Aug 26, 2022 at 1:37 pm

Lyle Chandler is a registered user.

Let's face it folks. Despite the global Paris Climate Accord and the recently passed domestic climate control act, there will never be a consensus in terms of actual and preferred practices.

And this even applies to the gas VS electricity factions in Palo Alto.

[Portion removed.]




Posted by Jennifer Clarke, a resident of Los Altos,
on Aug 26, 2022 at 4:52 pm

Jennifer Clarke is a registered user.

[Post removed.]


Posted by Kenneth Long, a resident of Downtown North,
on Aug 26, 2022 at 5:42 pm

Kenneth Long is a registered user.

An all-electric Palo Alto could work providing every residential dwelling and all commercial businesses were required to install emergency AC generators in the event of a blackout.


Posted by Harvey Long, a resident of Professorville,
on Aug 27, 2022 at 7:41 am

Harvey Long is a registered user.

We have a 3,000 watt Honda generator mounted on a platform near the crawlspace entrance. They cost about $2,500.00 at Home Depot and I imagine this expenditure would be a drop in the bucket for most Palo Alto homeowners.

The generator is gas-powered and very quiet during times of operation.

We also have solar panels and a battery storage unit which was somewhat costly. The jury is still out on this particular investment as we have yet to receive a rebate for the surplus electricity that is transfered to the grid.

Electrical blackouts don't phase or trouble us because we are adequately prepared.

Others might consider doing the same as most complaints will get you nowhere especially when dealing with bloated bureaucracies manned by incompetent employees.


Posted by Terry Hargrove, a resident of Mountain View,
on Aug 27, 2022 at 8:19 am

Terry Hargrove is a registered user.

A word to the wise...

When/if purchasing a Honda generator, check the country of origin code because Honda generators are primarily made in China.

They do assemble some generators in the USA at their factory in Swepsonville, North Carolina. The components come from Thailand, and the engines and electronics are built in Japan.


Posted by Pete Johnson, a resident of Embarcadero Oaks/Leland,
on Aug 27, 2022 at 9:55 am

Pete Johnson is a registered user.

> An all-electric Palo Alto could work providing every residential dwelling and all commercial businesses were required to install emergency AC generators in the event of a blackout.

Imagine 25,000+ gas-powered generators all running at the same time in the event of a city wide electrical blackout.

The environmentalist visionaries will probably begin promoting an electric-powered electric generator to curtail any and all emissions.


Posted by Brenda Tate, a resident of Old Palo Alto,
on Aug 27, 2022 at 1:31 pm

Brenda Tate is a registered user.

> 'an electric-powered electric generator'

^ Is this a novel form of advanced green technology?

In junior high school we were taught that a generator converts mechanical energy into electrical energy.

Would this set-up require something along the lines of a propeller mounted on the roof of a house or a stationary bicycle?


Posted by Bruce Warner Ph.D., a resident of another community,
on Aug 27, 2022 at 1:54 pm

Bruce Warner Ph.D. is a registered user.

Ideally, all residential and commercial buildings should be equipped with small-scale nuclear reactors to provide energy.

This effort would require comprehensive safety protocols and inspections to restrict spurious fallout and to ensure that the mini-reactors were not being tampered with to produce 'dirty' nuclear weapons.


Posted by Mondoman, a resident of Green Acres,
on Aug 27, 2022 at 1:54 pm

Mondoman is a registered user.

@Brenda Perhaps that's a good way to limit children's phone use. Modify the phone so it can ONLY be charged up by a pedal-powered stationary bike generator. That would do a good job in promoting making an effort, planning ahead, working toward a goal and "sweat equity".


Posted by Lucille Jackson, a resident of Ventura,
on Aug 27, 2022 at 2:21 pm

Lucille Jackson is a registered user.

Speaking of generators, increasing the flow of water in both San Fransquito and Matadero Creeks could (in theory) provide the mechanical power to operate a small number of auxiliary hydroelectric dams.

Unfortunately we are currently experiencing a serious seasonal drought as witnessed by Lake Mead.

Heavy torrential winter rains might make this concept more feasible.


Posted by Clara Boone, a resident of Menlo Park,
on Aug 27, 2022 at 4:04 pm

Clara Boone is a registered user.

"...San Fransquito and Matadero Creeks could (in theory) provide the mechanical power to operate a small number of auxiliary hydroelectric dams."

@Lucille Jackson

Wouldn't such a measure hinder the migration of any remaining salmon and/or steelhead in the area?

I've never seen anyone fishing for steelhead or salmon along the San Fransquito Creek and I assume it is because the fishing is poor.


Posted by Sally Blevins, a resident of another community,
on Aug 27, 2022 at 4:19 pm

Sally Blevins is a registered user.

Clara...

When we lived in Menlo Park (near the Allied Arts Guild) back in the 1960s, a neighbor used to go down to the creek with a pound of bologne and some crayfish traps.

He'd catch quite a few of them and one evening he invited us over for a Cajun-style dinner.

He mentioned that seasoned steamed crayfish is very popular in southern Louisiana but I don't believe he was oronally from there because he spoke with a Swedish accent.


Posted by Sally Blevins, a resident of another community,
on Aug 27, 2022 at 4:24 pm

Sally Blevins is a registered user.

> "...he was 'oronally' from there"
correction: [originally]

Getting back to San Fransquito Creek for a moment, I imagine there are probably fewer crayfish to be found there now.


Posted by Adrienne Brown, a resident of Woodside,
on Aug 28, 2022 at 8:03 am

Adrienne Brown is a registered user.

> increasing the flow of water in both San Fransquito and Matadero Creeks could (in theory) provide the mechanical power to operate a small number of auxiliary hydroelectric dams.

^ The Department of Fish and Game reintroduced beavers to Pescadero Creek in 1938 in an effort to increase the flow of water. During the course of their dam building, beavers clear the accumulated sludge.

Pescadero Creek and its two tributaries Butano and Peters Creeks also have a small population of Coho salmon and steelhead.

Perhaps beavers could be introduced to both Matadero and San Fransquito Creeks but I doubt there would be enough water flow to operate a number of small hydroelectric dams, otherwise this would have been done earlier at Pescadero Creek.

On the other hand, it would be nice to go steelhead and salmon fishing in suburban Palo Alto rather than having to drive further north to do so.


Posted by Audrey Yount, a resident of Midtown,
on Aug 28, 2022 at 8:21 am

Audrey Yount is a registered user.

When there is enough water, I've seen people in rafts along Matadero Creek.

If the water flow in Matadero Creek was increased to a regular level, I imagine one could easily kayak from the Barron Park and/or Ventura neighborhoods into Midtown (Middlefield Road) to go shopping at Safeway or Walgreens.

This would help the environment and reduce automobile emissions.


Posted by Muriel Fleming, a resident of Professorville,
on Aug 28, 2022 at 9:34 am

Muriel Fleming is a registered user.

Since rechargeable lithium-ion batteries are being used for nearly everything these days, couldn't they also be used to power a moderately-sized home with the assistance of supplemental solar power?

Getting off of the PA electrical grid should be a priority for all of those who have issues with its operation and overall reliability.

Regarding Matadero Creek, eradicating the seasonal algae blooms would help rejuvenate any remaining fish population and make the creek far more attractive for wading and small watercraft (e.g. rafts and kayaks). As a safety measure, no powered boats should be allowed there.

San Fransquito Creek is another story as it is more bucolic than the concrete Matadero Creek and would provide an ideal natural setting for homeless encampments.

In either event, both venues would need to be strictly monitored for public safety and to prevent the unlawful poaching of wildlife as a CA fishing license is also required for crayfish.

The salmon and steelhead population is minimal at Pescadero, San Fransquito, and Matadero Creeks...a seasonal trout planting might provide a suitable alternative.




Posted by Field and Stream, a resident of Old Palo Alto,
on Aug 28, 2022 at 9:44 am

Field and Stream is a registered user.

Since the water levels are already somewhat low at these creeks, the Pescadero beaver plant makes sense to a certain degree as beaver dams prevent an excessive flow of escaped water while still allowing fish to migrate beneath them.

Water temperature is also critical for trout, salmon, and steelhead to flourish...the colder the better.

Matadero Creek would be better suited for a catfish plant.


Posted by Derek Peters, a resident of Palo Alto Hills,
on Aug 28, 2022 at 9:55 am

Derek Peters is a registered user.

Earth to eco-minded Palo Altans...modern day Palo Alto cannot sustain any form of natural wildlife other than feral cats.


Posted by Florence Rogers, a resident of Community Center,
on Aug 28, 2022 at 11:03 am

Florence Rogers is a registered user.

Palo Alto Animal Services will loan you a cat trap upon request and they will pick-up the feral cats for euthanization.


Posted by Edna James, a resident of Midtown,
on Aug 29, 2022 at 7:29 am

Edna James is a registered user.

*...wild animals that one ordinarily does not see in Palo Alto.

What about that flock of green lorries that were always seen flying around St. Marks Episcopal Church on Colorado.

Are they still around? I never realized that parrots were native to Palo Alto.

Or did they migrate from Africa to Palo Alto?


Posted by Trevor Lewellen, a resident of Adobe-Meadow,
on Aug 29, 2022 at 11:23 am

Trevor Lewellen is a registered user.

Parrots and skunks aside, all forms of electrical generation (whether nuclear, hydroelectric, solar, wind power etc.) should be maintained along with gas lines to ensure that people have energy.

As for cars, EVs are OK for those who opt for (or desire) them but gas-powered cars should remain readily available until the rest of the world (including mass polluters like China and India) clean up their own acts.

The United States is past having to set a sterling example for other countries to follow (political or environmental) because the majority of countries no longer buy into America or its sanctimonious ideals.


Posted by Mimi Cassidy, a resident of Midtown,
on Aug 30, 2022 at 8:25 am

Mimi Cassidy is a registered user.

"...a good way to limit children's phone use. Modify the phone so it can ONLY be charged up by a pedal-powered stationary bike generator."

Why couldn't they simply recharge a cellphone via the battery on their e-bikes? The energy source is already in place and all it would take is an adapter and a mount to hold the phone.


Posted by Carolyn Petrovsky, a resident of Adobe-Meadow,
on Aug 30, 2022 at 10:04 am

Carolyn Petrovsky is a registered user.

""Democracy does not work for people cannot read and despite its flaws, subjugation under foreign rule is oftentimes the best alternative."

An interesting and closer example is Puerto Rico, a territory of the United States.

There is an ongoing debate whether to offer Puerto Rico eventual statehood or independence.

Either option would be a blunder as Puerto Rico is an impoverished, semi-literate island unsuitable for statehood or as an independent country.

Most of the Caribbean countries and remaining colonies in the region fall into the same category as they are primarily tourist venues or agricultural islands with minimal industrialization and education.

Being prone to seasonal hurricanes, the delapidated electrical grid in Puerto Rico also needs to be be re-engineered but all things considered, the energy needs of mainland Americans should always take precedence over the necessities of commonwealth territories with little to offer the modern world.


Posted by Mildred Johnson, a resident of Crescent Park,
on Aug 30, 2022 at 11:11 am

Mildred Johnson is a registered user.

Hawaii was once a territory of the United States and later became the 50th state.

Hawaii has an agricultural sector and is a vibrant tourist venue with modern-day electrical amenities.

Both Puerto Rico and Hawaii were annexed in 1898.

Curious...why is Puerto Rico such a backwards region even though it is a territory of the United States?

Like Haiti which was liberated in 1806, perhaps the inhabitants are incapable of self-sufficiency, modern technological advances, and self-government.

The same can be said of many former European colonies and now independent countries in Africa.


Posted by Ignacio De La Puente, a resident of another community,
on Aug 30, 2022 at 3:44 pm

Ignacio De La Puente is a registered user.

"Puerto Rico is an impoverished, semi-literate island..."

Impoverished yes...semi-literate no.

The literacy rate in Puerto Rico is 90.4% but 94% of the island speaks Spanish almost exclusively and therein lies the problem as a firm grasp of English is necessary in order to move forward both technologically and industrially.

I can not think of one modern or advanced country that does not some proficiency in English, at least among its more educated inhabitants.

Puerto Rico has been a U.S. territory since 1898 and why the majority of its inhabitants never learned to speak proper English is perplexing.

Seasonal hurricanes are a trademark of the island and during heavy storms, its electrical grid is often prone to breakdowns.

As an expatriate of San Juan PR, all I can say is that despite periodic resident complaints, the Palo Alto electrical grid system is quite reliable and a far cry from those in most Caribbean island countries.

In Puerto Rico, Palo Alto Municipal Services and its management of electricity would be considered on the leading edge of technology.

Palo Altans are incapable of living with austerity and sacrifice because they are spoiled and too SOFT.


Posted by Marnie Johnson, a resident of Menlo Park,
on Aug 30, 2022 at 5:15 pm

Marnie Johnson is a registered user.

> I can not think of one modern or advanced country that does not [have] some proficiency in English, at least among its more educated inhabitants.

^ When I worked as a French>English simultaneous interpreter at international conferences and seminars, the group addresses and scientific papers were generally presented in English, French, German, Japanese, and sometimes Russian.

Today most of these presentations are conducted in English as the more educated and erudite speakers from other countries speak fluent English and fully comprehend the language, oftentimes better than the average American.

Other global languages are somewhat immaterial as they most are likely to emanate from non-scientific or non-industrial sections of the world.

Exceptions might include Scandinavia where the Norwegians, Swedes, and Danish people speak different native languages but can converse and understand one another, the Benelux countries (The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg) and of course Switzerland where they speak German, French, and Italian. And besides, many of them also speak English.

I have never witnessed a scientific presentation being conducted in an African or Caribbean language and for good reason...these languages are not representative of modern, advanced scientific communities.

>> The literacy rate in Puerto Rico is 90.4% but 94% of the island speaks Spanish almost exclusively and therein lies the problem as a firm grasp of English is necessary in order to move forward both technologically and industrially.

^ Bingo and another good reason (among others) why Puerto Rico is not a viable candidate for U.S. statehood.


Posted by Tristan Rogers, a resident of Downtown North,
on Aug 31, 2022 at 6:57 am

Tristan Rogers is a registered user.

"...the Palo Alto electrical grid system is quite reliable and a far cry from those in most Caribbean island countries."

When Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico in 2017, the electricity was out for ONE YEAR. That's a far cry from a miniscule six hour Palo Alto blackout.

On an anthropological note, the advent and emergence of the Industrial Revolution is what makes the Afro-Caribbean world seem so backwards.

The indigenous peoples did not have a need for modern technological advancements as they were accustomed to living off the land with primitive hand tools and weapons. Fire was the only key necessity and all that took was rubbing two sticks together.

The European colonists introduced the need for gas and electricity to service their industrial objectives and to provide for various creature comforts like heating, lighting, and refrigeration.

Most African and the Caribbean countries have not progressed very far since gaining independence because of poor leadership, political instability, and a subpar education system.

Lastly, it should be noted that global warming and climate change is directly attributable to modern technology, not backwards people still living in the dark ages.


Posted by Fred Turner, a resident of Palo Alto Hills,
on Aug 31, 2022 at 9:18 am

Fred Turner is a registered user.

With EPRI (Electrical Power Research Institute) just up the road on Hillview Avenue, this PA issue should have been addressed and resolved decades ago as its population, demographics, and various industrial applications were evolving.

As usual, the shortsightedness of the past and present PACC is to blame.

Removing gas lines and retrofitting the entire city to electricity is a monumental task, one that our city leaders cannot even fathom because they are not knowledgeable on the subject.

Instead they are promoting an ideal scenario because it is currently trendy to blame climate change and global warming on everything else but the city's growing population which in turn, increases the dependency on electrical and gas utilities.

Promoting further housing developments will also exacerbate the problem.

If it weren't for PACC term limits, PA residents would be even more screwed.


Posted by Sanjay Chopra, a resident of Adobe-Meadow,
on Aug 31, 2022 at 9:53 am

Sanjay Chopra is a registered user.

Comparatively speaking, how can Palo Alto leaders even consider such a massive electrical system undertaking when residents living in the neighborhoods between Oregon Expressway and San Antonio Road don't even have something as basic as 5G yet?

The PACC is biting off more than it can chew.


Posted by Paul Wickersham, a resident of Mountain View,
on Aug 31, 2022 at 11:19 am

Paul Wickersham is a registered user.

In some ways, the PACC is trying way too hard to appear being progressive and visionary when certain situations do not call for it.

Mr. Tanaka is the only voice of reason on the PACC...the others are ineffectual do-gooders


Posted by Paul Wickersham, a resident of Mountain View,
on Aug 31, 2022 at 11:19 am

Paul Wickersham is a registered user.

In some ways, the PACC is trying way too hard to appear being progressive and visionary when certain situations do not call for it.

Mr. Tanaka is the only voice of reason on the PACC...the others are ineffectual do-gooders


Posted by Florence Young, a resident of Crescent Park,
on Aug 31, 2022 at 2:26 pm

Florence Young is a registered user.

What goes on in Puerto Rico either politically or electrically is of minimal concern or importance to the majority of Palo Alto residents.

Puerto Ricans do not pay any federal income tax unless they are employed by U.S. companies with headquarters based in the mainland.

In 1917, Puerto Ricans were granted American citizenship and are allowed to vote in presidential elections. Puerto Ricans are not fully represented in Congress because they pay little or no U.S. income taxes.

At present, Puerto Rico is an ongoing recipient of U.N. assistance as it is incapable of providing for itself economically, technologically, educationally, or medically.

Like the U.S. Virgin Islands, the crime rate is high and both islands should be cut loose as they are of no direct benefit to the United States or any of its 50 state citizens.

For a commonwealth entity to go an entire year without electricity after a major storm speaks volumes.


Posted by Harriet Becker, a resident of Community Center,
on Sep 1, 2022 at 7:09 am

Harriet Becker is a registered user.

Increases in CA population must be curtailed in order to reduce strain on the electrical grid and congestion on the freeways.

Easier said than done.




Posted by Roberta Meacham, a resident of Woodside,
on Sep 1, 2022 at 9:15 am

Roberta Meacham is a registered user.

When we purchased our property near La Honda, there was an old line shack where the previous owner's estate caretaker once resided.

Old and delapidated, it had no electricity/gas or running water. There was a cast iron wood stove inside and an outhouse about 10 yards away from the dwelling.

To experience pioneer life, we decided to live there for a week and to date, we are now reluctant to return to the main house with all of its amenities.

An Apple iPhone (for emergency use only) is our only modern device and kept charged by occasionally plugging it into the cigarette lighter of our old pickup truck parked nearby.

The pantry is stocked with coffee, flour, sugar, dried beans, and some canned goods with bacon stored in an ice chest over some dry ice.

A neighbor provides us with fresh eggs and an occasional chicken and there are some fruit trees (apple, pear) on the premises.

Since there is a lot of downed wood lying about, the wood-burning cast iron stove is used regularly along with a portable Coleman gas stove (the kind people used for car camping). It takes some practice to learn how to bake on a wood stove as the heat control is regulated by the intensity of the internal fire.

With no running water available, we use the kitchen hand pump and some buckets as needed for cooking and washing.

A bi-weekly trip to downtown Woodside for replenishing certain items is about all we need to do and the time passes very slowly...providing plenty of opportunity for reading, playing guitar, drinking beer, and smoking pot.

The decision facing us now is whether to rent the 'big house' out to tenants and remain off-site or return to a more conventional existence.

Going off grid has its inconveniences but once acclimated to a more minimalist existence, a return to everyday life
seems like a nightmare.

Others can have it.


Posted by Julia Anderson, a resident of Midtown,
on Sep 1, 2022 at 10:47 am

Julia Anderson is a registered user.

@Roberta Meacham:
I envy you in many ways. To be able to further distance oneself from the contemporary world takes personal sacrifice, resilience, and a devoted willingness to walk away from the all-encompassing trivialities of everyday life.

Palo Alto has overextended itself. Why should established residents strive to accommodate newcomers when all this will do is overburden the existing municipal utilities system?

People need adequate space to ensure sound mental health as overpopulation in the major urban cities in the U.S. will attest. More people equates to more crime and a substandard quality of life.

Less is more and that old Barbra Streisand song 'People' is quite misleading because "People who NEED (other) people are the UNLUCKIEST people in the word."

If we had the financial resources, my family would get as far away from here as possible and with plenty of surrounding space, it would not matter whether it was a red or blue state.

Meanwhile, with a current heat spell projected over the Labor Day weekend, another electrical blackout should come as no surprise and countless EVs will most likely be deemed inoperable.

"Increases in CA population must be curtailed in order to reduce [further] strain on the [existing] electrical grid..."

^ Bingo...newcomers are not welcome.


Posted by Ken Baker, a resident of Downtown North,
on Sep 1, 2022 at 12:04 pm

Ken Baker is a registered user.

> ...newcomers are not welcome.

Given their increasing numbers and compared to Los Altos, the homeless population is always welcomed in Palo Alto/Mountain View and as an added benefit, they do not burden the electrical grid or the residents of both cities.


Posted by Lateisha Tolliver, a resident of East Palo Alto,
on Sep 1, 2022 at 1:45 pm

Lateisha Tolliver is a registered user.

My great-grandpatents were sharecroppers in Arkansas and lived without modern conveniences like a refrigerator, air conditioning, a gas or electric stove, indoor plumbing, a washing machine and central heating.

They managed to get by and perhaps Palo Altans could take a cue by doing with less.

Then the constant strain on the electrical grid would be reduced.


Posted by Beverly Tatum, a resident of Old Palo Alto,
on Sep 1, 2022 at 4:18 pm

Beverly Tatum is a registered user.

We live in an older house and like many older homes in Palo Alto, there is no air conditioning.

To keep parts of the house cooler on hotter days like this Labor Day weekend, we place block ice in a large tray to catch the runoff and then stick an electric fan behind it.

Hopefully there won't be any electrical blackouts this weekend in Palo Alto.

I suspect this current heat spell is just another late summer prelude to a warmer Indian Summer as climate change is merely a seasonal phenomena that has been going on for eons.




Posted by Judy Hamlin, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis,
on Sep 2, 2022 at 6:44 am

Judy Hamlin is a registered user.

Another way of staying cool (especially when outdoors), is to place a couple of refrigerated iceberg lettuce leaves inside your hat or ball cap.

This is an old baseball trick that goes back decades when life was far more simpler than it is today.

We cannot turn back the time or reverse climate change and so the best thing to do is to try and stay cool until the end finally comes.


Posted by Estelle Steinman, a resident of Community Center,
on Sep 2, 2022 at 7:41 am

Estelle Steinman is a registered user.

• Another way of staying cool (especially when outdoors), is to place a couple of refrigerated iceberg lettuce leaves inside your hat or ball cap.

^ With all the famine going on around the world, wouldn't this be considered a waste of food?

Lettuce leaves are best used for preparing wraps, tossed salads and as an accoutrement to hamburgers (along with a tomato and pickle).

To place lettuce inside a ballcap or hat to stay cool would render it useless for consumption.


Posted by Jim Takamoto, a resident of Downtown North,
on Sep 2, 2022 at 10:48 am

Jim Takamoto is a registered user.

Who would consume iceberg lettuce after it was warm and wilted from lying under a baseball cap? Seriously?

Iceberg lettuce is so cheap it doesn't matter how it is used.


Posted by Ruben Herrera, a resident of Mountain View,
on Sep 2, 2022 at 1:24 pm

Ruben Herrera is a registered user.

My grandparents picked lettuce in the fields during the 1940s through early 1950s.

They would be amazed to learn that lettuce can also be used for air conditioning.


Posted by Bystander, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood,
on Sep 2, 2022 at 1:57 pm

Bystander is a registered user.

Generally speaking, the outer leaves of an iceberg lettuce are put straight into the compost bin, they tend to be straggly and unappetising. Using them for cooling seems like a good idea, but you might be chased by a rabbit!


Posted by Wei Jiang, a resident of Charleston Meadows,
on Sep 2, 2022 at 2:21 pm

Wei Jiang is a registered user.

Can cabbage (Bok Choy or Napa) also be used underneath a hat to keep cool?

Americans are so innovative.


Posted by Roberta Beckham, a resident of Los Altos,
on Sep 3, 2022 at 7:33 am

Roberta Beckham is a registered user.

In lieu of using lettuce, an elderly neighbor soaks a ballcap in water and then places it in a freezer on top of a styrofoam wig holder to maintain its shape. The cap comes out with the texture of a steel helmet but she says they soften up after about 15 minutes of wear and remain cool via the ongoing evaporation of the H20.

This concept would probably work even better with a larger and wider brimmed hat like a sombrero but most kitchen freezers might not be able to accommodate the added size.




Posted by Bill Liscomb, a resident of Barron Park,
on Sep 3, 2022 at 8:43 am

Bill Liscomb is a registered user.

The easiest (and cheapest) way to stay cool during this Labor Day weekend would be to sit in a child's wading pool filled with water & ice while enjoying your favorite chilled beverage.

Lettuce-filled ballcaps are optional.

Let's all do our part to spare the grid.


Posted by Bethany Goldstein, a resident of Menlo Park,
on Sep 3, 2022 at 9:24 am

Bethany Goldstein is a registered user.

@Bill Liscomb
There was an episode on 'Married With Children' where in order to escape the summer heat, the Bundy's brought easy chairs into a supermarket and planted them near the chilled beverage section.

Snacks were readily available and they spent the entire afternoon there relaxed and refreshed.

I don't think this could be done at Draegers or Safeway but one never knows until it is tried.


Posted by Bruce Wilkens, a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis,
on Sep 3, 2022 at 10:48 am

Bruce Wilkens is a registered user.

When I lived in Sonora (Mexico) as an anthropological grad student, the locals taught me how to extract water from a cactus plant.

With a seasonal drought in full swing, some Palo Altans should consider removing their water-hungry lawns and replacing them with succulents and cacti.

And the same applies to the Palo Alto Muni Golf Course and Alta Mesa Cemetery where water is blatantly being wasted for both hackers and the deceased.


Posted by Ferrell Johnson, a resident of Mountain View,
on Sep 3, 2022 at 11:16 am

Ferrell Johnson is a registered user.

There are simply too many people currently residing in Palo Alto and this in turn places an undue strain on the city's electrical grid.

Meanwhile there is an ongoing move to increase housing availability in Palo Alto.

Does this make any sense?

Perhaps only to developers and accommodating PACC members who seem.intent on.playing the progressive card.


Posted by Julie Prescott, a resident of Community Center,
on Sep 3, 2022 at 2:28 pm

Julie Prescott is a registered user.

To stay cool, another option (if one owns an EV) is to simply drive around aimlessly with the AC full on.

Since an EV vehicle is eco-clean, there is no air pollution being emitted.

And with a 150-200 range lithium-ion battery, one can motor about for about 3-4 hours depending on the distance covered.


Posted by Bystander, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood,
on Sep 11, 2022 at 11:52 am

Bystander is a registered user.

Another power outage today, 4th in 7 days. Utilities have not issued explanation yet.


Posted by Bystander, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood,
on Sep 11, 2022 at 4:18 pm

Bystander is a registered user.

4.15 Sunday afternoon and still nothing from Utilities. Our power is unreliable and they don't appear to care.


Posted by Bystander, a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood,
on Sep 12, 2022 at 1:26 pm

Bystander is a registered user.

Monday lunchtime and still nothing from the PAW or utilities about Sunday's outage. The silence is deafening.


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