City may allow pot dispensaries by year’s end

This will be this city’s undoing. Bring this crap into our city for the sake of a few. I could sell you ten other causes more worthy of the support of City Hall, but only this currently-vogue liberal one is within their sites. The result will be a confusing message being sent to our youth. In the end we’ll just have a bunch of Lustig’s running around …

Oh… There were no opposition speakers and many proponents at the council meeting last night. If you feel strongly against an issue that your city has taken up you better attend some council meetings and become informed or you could just whine and complain on the local forums. Around 2/3 of Mountain View Voters voted in favor of Prop 215.
What are your fears?
Please?
Brian David
Executive Director
Shoreline Wellness Collective

By the time they study it, it will be legal. Way to step up gutless city council.

Back to the point that I am an MD! Smoking ANYTHING unnecessarily (i.e. teens trying drugs to get high) causes lung damage. Enough said. This is a drug, it needs to be tightly controlled. I know of no better methodology than the FDA Schedule 3 program which keeps methadone, Percocet, and so on in the hands of licensed pharmacists, in locked cabinets, in places like Rite Aid. Patients show IDs and scrips and get their meds.
I would have no objection whatsoever to including medical marijuana in a Rite Aid pharmacy! However the law does not allow this currently. It would be sold by non-medical, untrained personell to people with dubious written “authorizations” in quantities which may exceed their needed amount. The economic incentive to turn it around for a profit (very sorry to Brian and those in favor) is extremely high. There are many interested parties in search of a drug high who will now have easy local access.
I say, keep it hard to get for kids. Easy to get for patients of course! Perhaps start a van-driven collective to go to the SJ dispensaries and get the drug en-masse on a weekly basis.

“Medical marijuana patients require a medically validated “recommendation letter” to enter a collective. The security is strict–a collective’s existence depends on it. ”

——————
Those “validated” recommendation letters are bought and sold on the internet (Kids, close your eyes, you didn’t read that). I liken them to notes you got from your Mom justifying Junior’s absence from school.

“My hope is that my community will understand how principled this argument is in favor of honoring both the law and the spirit of the law–compassionate care–and will not be influenced by the canard of “risk to our children.”

————————–

Morality is not the issue here. I support providing folks with the appropriate medicines for their illness. To do that, you need medicines that have gone the rigors of testing and efficacy that all other similar drugs do, and once proven, then distributed in the established distribution systems that we already have in place (ie pharmacies).

Allowing the use of marijuana as medicine without studying it thoroughly is bad science.

Distributing it through a shadow distribution system whose safeguards lie somewhere between a pharmacy and a liquor store is bad public policy.

Marijuana may truly be misunderstood as medicine, but the method of execution that has been taken to reintroduce it into the mainstream is so full of holes, it lessens credibility.

Please no no NO to pot clubs, medical marijuana dispensaries, etc., in Mt. View. If people have a genuine reason/need for doping up on marijuana, let their doctor give them the marijuana…not a neighborhood dispensary pot-hole. And ADHD is a crazy-*** reason for getting dope. I’ve seen the checklist of ADHD symptoms and it’s just a list of most teenage boys’ behaviors. Maybe the next need for pot will be sex addiction. Perhaps all Tiger needed was a quick tote. I’ve read somewhere that smoking pot reduces your libido.
By the way, I watched the city council meeting last Tuesday on tv and all of the medical marijuana advocates had a hard time delivering a cohesive, clear argument. Maybe due to their lifestyle?

I really doubt any Prop 215 patient is going to go and resell their purchases to kids, and anyone else in general.

Anyone who is dead set on getting their hands on some marijuana KNOWS that prices for it through a dispensary are much higher than “street” prices.

Having these collectives isn’t going to turn MV upside down where your friendly drug dealer is on every other corner because they get their supply from a collective.

“Oh… There were no opposition speakers and many proponents at the council meeting last night. If you feel strongly against an issue that your city has taken up you better attend some council meetings and become informed or you could just whine and complain on the local forums. Around 2/3 of Mountain View Voters voted in favor of Prop 215.”

——————–

If “being informed” is defined as agreeing with two third’s of public opinion, then I submit that the Lemming is the most informed creature in the animal world.

This is one major aspect that worries me about the pro-argument for medical marijuana: it rests on the strength that many people support it, not on rigorous proven science, and not on well conceived policy on how to manage it.

To put it another way, 99% of the folks who drank Kool-Aid with Jim Jones thought they were “well informed”, but that didn’t change the results for them.

In God we trust, all others need to bring data.

This isn’t about what I’m calling for, this is about what material should be used to make an informed decision on this issue.

The studies you refer to are a good start, but as the SF Chronicle article states, and as the reports themselves indicate, the published data set is preliminary and far from conclusive. There appear to be many relevant studies underway, like

“Impact of Repeated Cannabis Treatments on Driving Abilities”

“A Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Crossover Trial of theAntinociceptive Effects of Smoked Marijuana on Subjects with
Neuropathic Pain“

but these are not concluded yet, and are needed before making an informed decision on a dispensary in Mountain View.

I’ve said this before, making a decision on a dispensary is not right or wrong, its premature.

You don’t send out a software program to the marketplace in alpha and then see what happens to your customers, before you make changes. Something as innoculous as a computer program, that has no direct impact to human health goes through qualification BEFORE it is released. Medicinal marijuana needs to go through this and finish with a dataset in hand, at a minimum.

“I am a physician, and I find it truly disturbing that suddenly this type of drug can be sold in a storefront in my own town”

Like, um, Walgreens?

Pot dispensary in Mtn View ?!?!??? Sweet!!

I can’t wait to get a card. I’m gonna make an appointment with a “guaranteed” cannabis card doctor (easy to find). My back hurts!

Come to daddy, Mary J!!

After all, why should I risk smoking weed illegally, when I can easily get a card a be “legal” ?

tbone –

You’re right…I’m in my mid twenty’s!

Ready for some weed! My poor back hurts, AND I feel nausea!

Where are all these nightmare scenarios playing out in communities that have had responsible MMJ dispensaries going on for years?
No really, Santa Cruz has been on the forefront of this issue ever since it was legal. How has it directly changed anything except drive illegal dealers into communities like Mt View. Oh,I correct myself, the nightmare of increased tax revenue has been seen by Santa Cruz on top
of making it hard for illegal dealers.

Once the hysteria is done, the facts come out.

“You will say the testimony of those many thousands of people is anecdotal and needs to be done by men in white coats in a controlled environment — but your average drug approved by the FDA gets nothing close to this kind of scientific scrutiny. Indeed, today big pharmaceutical companies DO deliver their products “to the marketplace in alpha” and then find out later what happened to their customers. ”

—————–

Really? I’ve worked in the biotech industry, supporting drug approvals and drug manufacuturing overseen by the FDA. Life cycle for developing a drug is measured in years, not months, and companies must factor in substantial budgets to support the mountain of animal testing, phase 1 and phase 2 clinical trials, and documentation that is required by the FDA before approval of a drug for sale and distribution. Those records, and samples of development of these drugs must be kept for years after initial approval, in case they are needed for reference by the FDA. In addition, white papers like the ones you provided for marijuana are routinely done to ascertain the effects of drug under a myriad of conditions. Not sure where you are getting your information that supports “alpha”testing of any drug in the marketplace.

The drug you refer to as an example of cavalier testing refers to the “months” it took to discover that the drug had an adverse effect under CLINICAL conditions, it was not released as “alpha” to the general public. And your example here actually highlights the reason why testing is so important. Even a drug that has gone through all the testing the FDA requires still can be dangerous under specific conditions not tested for adequately.

Rather than trying to prove a negative, I challenge you to prove a positive: Show me another Schedule 1 drug (marijuana is currently considered Schedule 1 by the FDA) that is currently in use legally as medicine, with little documented scientific testing, and being distributed outside a pharmacy. If that’s too hard, try identifying a Schedule 2 drug that meets those criteria.

These are the same criteria you are advocating that marijuana should be allowed to enjoy.

Touting marijuana as medicine, for people who are sick, and who are especially vulnerable to negative side effects if/when they occur, requires a higher burden of proof than, “Well, its been around for thousands of years so it must be ok.”

Shawn L – The only reason anyone would have a “legal prescription” would be if they were seriously ill…. Your comment that I should just “go get one” suggests that there are people are “gaming” the system….

Hardin,

Since I am neither a cop nor a biotech expert, I’ll leave it to you to explain all the vagaries as to which drugs are Schedule 1, Schedule 2, etc. and why.

But don’t spend too much time on it, since there already is a marijuana derivative on the market which has pleased all the relevant authorities — politicians, big-pharma CEOs, law enforcement authorities and biotech, doctors and scientists. The DEA describes it (somewhat hilariously, given the current debate) this way: “Medical marijuana already exists. It’s called Marinol.” (http://www.justice.gov/dea/ongoing/marinol.html)

How much more attractive Marinol must seem to the above-mentioned authorities than pot. After all, such a big long expensive process went into inventing, vetting and marketing this pill — and now a dumb plant which grows for free stands between them and their profits.

Though you would be loath to think of it this way, by now the medical marijuana debate really boils down to aesthetics. Some people just love authority — the process, the testing and categorizing, the poking and prodding. Others are willing to go with what their own eyes tell them. As a friend of mine once put it, some people wouldn’t believe the time of day unless a cop told them.

As for the counter-example I cited earlier, the article I quoted states, “Natalizumab first received FDA approval in November 2004, only to be pulled from the market three months later…” I take “the market” to mean the market, as in available for purchase. I don’t doubt there were many thousands of Hardins working diligently under strictly regulated scientific conditions to determine its safety. Yet it made people sick. As you no doubt know, there are many such examples.

Now I challenge you to prove a positive and tell us about the many people — the “lemmings” as it were — who have suffered terribly (or really at all) from marijuana use.

“As for the counter-example I cited earlier, the article I quoted states, “Natalizumab first received FDA approval in November 2004, only to be pulled from the market three months later…” I take “the market” to mean the market, as in available for purchase. I don’t doubt there were many thousands of Hardins working diligently under strictly regulated scientific conditions to determine its safety. Yet it made people sick. As you no doubt know, there are many such examples.”

———————

Did you read your article? The patients that were found to have the adverse side effects were discovered in the CLINICAL trial group. It was because of this discovery, the drug was pulled off the market, and no reported effects were reported for the general public.

That is exactly why all the testing and studies are needed. Thinking something is safe, is different from proving something is safe.

And yes, it was because of all those hardworking, “don’t gloss over the details” type people in white lab coats that the effects were discovered in the CLINICAL trial, which PREVENTED injury to the general public.

You also failed to mention that the drug was permitted to be released back into the market in 2006, with new restrictions and greater oversite to address its side effects.

OK, you’ve mentioned it. (And I for one am glad the guys in lab coats didn’t gloss over small details such as progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy!)

Let us leave aside this one small example, as you’re using it to evade the many larger and more important points:

* The existence of actual verifiable truth outside of a laboratory
* The existence of drugs which passed FDA approval and clinical trials, and still turned out to be harmful in ways not previously understand (do you acknowledge that this has ever happened?)
* “Medical marijuana already exists. It’s called Marinol.”

Hardin Says,

“”DOES THE BENEFITS TO THE PATIENT OUTWEIGH THE NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS?””

Why don’t you read the side effects I listed and judge for yourself, you don’t seem to have a problem judging so it should come natural. I’d say the answer is a resounding YES. If a side effect for a cancer drug is that it makes you hungry or laugh, that’s not a bad thing in my eyes. You claim more research needs to be done, but it’s already been researched 1,000 times over. You’d think if there were serious (more serious than chemo?) side effects that we’d know about them by now.

And while you ponder the legitimacy, people remain sick and in need. You value your time more than theirs, and they may not have much time left.

tbone:

No, I didn’t say you should “just go get one.”

I will say that regarding “your belief that the system is rife with abuse” that you should talk about what you know.

As a native of Mountain View who has lived here my entire life (Springer School, Blach Jr. High, MVHS), I have a deep passion in keeping Mountain View safe from anything that will become a detriment to our Community. Recreational use of cannabis for non-medical purposes lies within these values. And so the question lies: Will medical cannabis collective/s within the City of Mountain View allow for a greater probability of general access to cannabis to those who have not been authorized to do so by a certified physician? This, to me, seems like the big question Council needs to weigh. Asking the MV City Council to pass judgment on the 1996 voter approved legislation is not their responsibility; managing this legislation in conjunction with other City priorities, is. Luckily, there are numerous opportunities for Council to explore different collectives in nearby Cities. I would suggest looking at ARC Healing Center (www.archealingcenter.org) in San Jose or Harborside Health Center in Oakland. Requiring verification of a physician’s recommendation, valid identification, agreement to the rules of that collective, etc… all act as buffers so that only those who are lawfully allowed to gain access to the medicine do so (as per CA State Law). Requiring annual inspection fees and/or additional fees will allow the City to recoup any costs in keeping these collectives accountable. By designing an ordinance that balances the needs of the Community with the needs of the patient, Mountain View can show itself as a template for how a local municipality can manage the wishes of the general public (via a voter approved initiative). And with plenty of resources (both for, and against) available for Council and/or Staff to make a reasonable decision, I am hopeful that Council will see that safe access to cannabis will not be a detriment to our Community, but show Mountain View as the compassionate, real-minded City it has shown in the past. BUT, these resources need to be accessed in order for such a decision to be made (and not merely attaching the White Paper to a proposed ordinance as the basis for action).

“You contend that making a decision on a dispensary is ‘not right or wrong, it’s premature’. Marijuana has been on Earth since before beer and to say its regulation is ‘premature’ is tantamount to saying that ‘we’re awaiting proof that marijuana is dangerous/deadly and we need more time to discover how this will destroy our community. No dispensaries until we have proof that pot is bad’!”

————————-

Um, so are you inferring that marijuana is like beer and should be regulated like beer? Beer does have regulations in place, but then again it isn’t called medicinal and no one is claiming they drink for their health.

So pick your poison, either

1. You are talking about marijuana as medicine. In this case, virtually anything you use as a medicine, especially if its classified as a drug, goes through testing and FDA approval and gets distributed thru a pharmacy.

2. You are talking about marijuana as recreational, like beer, and that it should be treated , handled, and considered like beer. If that’s the case, neither the Federal government nor the state of California currently allows the use of marijuana for this use. Its illegal.

In either case, you are barking up the wrong tree. The reason you are seeing resistance to your movement is because you’ve ignored all the established systems in place for ensuring proper use of a substance, and instead have opted to create your own system, that as presented, leaves a lot of open questions.

Hardin, I think you should offer to drive some of these patients to the dispensaries you mentioned. It might open your mind.

“1. You are talking about marijuana as medicine. In this case, virtually anything you use as a medicine, especially if its classified as a drug, goes through testing and FDA approval and gets distributed thru a pharmacy.”

I’m trying to follow your argument here, but I don’t quite understand how your rigid standard applies to a weed.

At what point does marijuana qualify in your book to be classified as having medicinal applications?

I referred you to the SFGate article that cited a scientific study stating that marijuana is effective at reducing pain. More studies will be done, so we’ll continue to learn more. But simply having the FDA approve the drug and then having a pharmaceutical company issue a form of the drug for exclusive sale in a pharmacy does not take anything away from the medicinal application of what I may grow in my back yard. (I understand that until this FDA approval occurs, you’re not going to accept the idea that marijuana has a medicinal use. Fine.) What I am getting at here is that you are arguing for is a one-size-fits-all approach to “medicine.” Have you never mixed a bit of brandy with honey to make your own cough syrup? Is there not a medical use for alcohol?

I happen to think that if a by-the-book “conclusive study” finds a medical use for marijuana we as a civilization should not have to forfeit our traditional methods of delivery, i.e., smoking, eating or other, in order to purchase a manufactured capsule. But I don’t see that your definition could allow for that.

“So the discussion about whether or not marijuana is medicine, is strictly for the purpose of deciding whether or not a dispensary should be allowed in Mountain View.”

No, the law states that medical marijuana use and possession is legal. The ability of cities to ban dispensaries is under review in the Anaheim case cited earlier.

The question for Mountain View is whether or not it will allow for dispensaries to exist–and that may not be up to the city, ultimately. And if dispensaries can exist in Mountain View, how should the city zone and regulate them?

I am not interested in satisfying your standard for marijuana as medicine. I am interested in providing patients access to marijuana that by law they have a right to possess and use.

I also want to say, Hardin, that while I strongly disagree with you on the points that we have discussed here, I do appreciate you taking the time to articulate your concerns and position on this important issue. I hope we’ll get a chance to meet at City Hall. Bring the best argument you can fit into three minutes and let’s have some fun!

Hardin,

The bulk of this “discussion” has been you quoting other people, then ignoring the quotes and talking to yourself. Note the way you continued to carry on with “schedule 1” this and “schedule 2” that, thinking you were scoring zingers, long after I’d addressed and dismissed it and moved on.

That’s why I signed off at 5 and you continued to issue your rebuttals at 6.

The bottom line is this thing is going to happen — is happening, will continue to happen — no matter what you or I write here. And no one will be hurt, despite your deep and abiding concern.

But I’m glad you got something out of it.

“localmom” – According to our own California State Attorney General Youth Survey and contrary to what the opposition stated prior to the vote, youth usage of Cannabis has dropped at one of the highest rates in the nation since the enactment of compassionate medical use in 1997.

A properly run wellness center would be virtually undetectable by passer-bys.

There are commercial and industrial vacancies within our city that are 1,000’s of feet away from any social gathering venues (Schools, Youth Centers, Churches, Parks).

Big Al – I get the sense you’re insinuating “other Lustigs running around” would be a bad thing.

I am sure you know me well.

May God bless you.

Hardin – “Those “validated” recommendation letters are bought and sold on the internet (Kids, close your eyes, you didn’t read that).”

I have just spent 15 minutes searching Google and I can only find “prequalification for medical marijuana cards” which then “require face to face consultations”.

Please keep your credibility intact by specifying where this unacceptable phenomenon exists and contact the authorities.

Our youth are not capable of obtaining recommendations from online.

People are consistently experiencing anguish and distress because of falsities such as these, please stop the lying.

“comparing marijuana..to a placebo..the jury is still out”???

Amazing.

JustSayNo – “ADHD is a crazy-*** reason for getting dope.”

Your implied vulgarity is impressive.

If you cannot understand why people who have ADHD and Chronic Migraines like myself medicate with Cannabis as an alternative to hardcore prescription drugs then you’re not really dedicating yourself towards listening or researching the issue.

“By the way”, you’re quick to criticize the brave and passionate speakers at the city council meeting that night.

Cowering in the shadows is quite honorable.

Reality – “Santa Cruz has been on the forefront of this issue ever since it was legal. How has it directly changed anything except drive illegal dealers into communities like Mt View.”

Santa Cruz is just one example of the many cities and counties throughout our state which have seen dramatic reductions in violent crime since 1996 (Although their numbers are still slightly higher than the current national average and ongoing diligence by citizens and local authorities is mandatory).

While the opposition to the medical use of Cannabis stated that crime would substantially increase with the allowance of collectives, quite the contrary has actually happened since the illegalities of the medication were lifted.

The violent crime rate in California is currently at a 40 year low.

The violent crime rate in Los Angeles (where an estimated 800-1,000 centers exist) is currently at a 50 year low.

Hardin – “Show me another Schedule 1 drug (marijuana is currently considered Schedule 1 by the FDA) that is currently in use legally as medicine”

Do you realize the only way that the Justice Department and the FDA can categorize Cannabis as a “schedule 1 drug”?

Thus making it possible for our society and our government to persecute and prosecute sick patients who utilize Cannabis in an attempt to combat their pain and suffering..

“Schedule 1” drugs MUST fit within the criteria “no proven medical value”.

“no proven medical value”??!!

That blatant lie shamefully flies directly in the face of the sick, the educated, and thousands of years worth of civilizations around the world who have benefited from its use.

Keeping it as a “schedule 1” “no proven medical value” drug makes it illegal to be prescribed by doctors no matter how effective they believe it to be for their patients conditions.

“Licensed physicians” “recommend” it under California law.

Cocaine and Amphetamines are “schedule 2” drugs, which can and are prescribed every day by doctors to patients, suspicious don’t you think???

I consider this ignorant and unwarrantable stance on Cannabis by our government, which was motivated by big business, disingenuous, despicable and murderous.

Thom – Salutations my friend.

Good people disagree at times 😉

Prescription drugs and raw forms of botanical herbs and botanical teas are exempt from tax as long as they’re not consumed on the premises or dispensed hot, I can’t understand what the rationalization would be for taxing Cannabis.

Some consider taxing Cannabis makes it more “socially acceptable” because it would generate revenue for the general fund.

Forcing ill patients to pay tax on top of the price of their much needed medication (which isn’t yet covered by insurance) is awfully unethical.

I feel that sticking it to sick people before they get better or before they die so that we can maintain our sidewalks is atrocious.

“But I will always support the legal use of medicinal marijuana with the right people running the programs and the right rules and regulations in place.”

I agree, the wellness centers that exist here in Mountain View should be operated in fashions that are envied and then replicated and echoed throughout the medical Cannabis states.

Certain policies, procedures, safeguards, and security measures should be implemented to ensure not only the protection of the patients, but for the surrounding community as well.

In addition, wellness centers here should not only focus on patient’s health in several different aspects (e.g. support groups, yoga, fitness, eating habits, acupuncture, massage therapy, energy healing, etcetera), but they should file for state Non-Profit status which would encourage and enforce donating all excess funds to charities, foundations, services, activities, and events for all ages throughout our community.

There is potential for creating something truly beautiful, admirable, and beneficial for all here in Mountain View.

I applaud our City Council for taking an intellectual and responsible approach in determining how such medical facilities can function appropriately within our community.

Expediting an end to this local archaic and barbaric medical prohibition is imperative.

While determining plausible regulations and ordinances, people will continue to live and die in pain.

The National Cancer Institute announced last year that “Some 20-40% of cancer victims die from causes related to malnutrition, not from the cancer itself, and 80% of cancer patients develop some form of clinical malnutrition”.

Cannabis eradicates nausea and stimulates appetites which could potentially help save hundreds of thousands of our cancer stricken family members, friends, neighbors, and fellow Americans every year. (550,000 estimated annual deaths from cancer in the US alone)

Several years ago the OCBC in Oakland released a list of over 500 different ailments for which patients had obtained a Cannabis recommendation under their doctor’s supervision.

The benefits of Cannabis reach far beyond the terrible and horrific grasp of cancer.

I did not begin this struggle with the intentions of negatively impacting any lives…I joined this momentous movement because it contributes towards the betterment of our society.

The abolishment of slavery, abolishment of women suffrage, ending of wars, fight for civil rights, rights for the disabled and elderly, gay rights, human rights, religious rights, animal rights, and even peace have all been opposed and combated against by groups of immoral and uneducated people.

I don’t believe such a person exists on our city council.

“The ultimate measure of a leader is not where they stand in moments of comfort and convenience, but where they stand at times of challenge and controversy.” – MLK

Be well.

Mr. Lustig piqued my interest, so I decided to do my own “15 minute” Google research project. Here’s what I found in the first 5 minutes:

http://www.stonerforums.com/lounge/general-medical-marijuana-discussion/19279-got-my-card-today.html

http://www.stonerforums.com/lounge/general-medical-marijuana-discussion/17666-newbie-questions-co.html

http://www.stonerforums.com/lounge/general-medical-marijuana-discussion/18711-sucks-texas-medical-marijuana.html

http://www.stonerforums.com/lounge/general-medical-marijuana-discussion/16774-have-you-been-turned-down.html

Only thing I’ll add is that this particular site had a lot of traffic, I kept losing my place in the forums because of new entries.

This is not to stay that marijuana does not have true medical applications and benefits. Even the scarce research that is starting to come out suggests it does. But how we go about controlling this substance in its application and distribution, can mean the difference between effective medicine and irresponsible use.

Mr. Lustig:

You tend to speak with such authority about this topic that impassions you so much and of which you are a key advocate to bring it to this city. May I ask what your qualifications are, such as education, years of time in your particular profession, number of scholarly and peer-reviewed publications on your topic, etc? It seems to me all you do is surf the web for you straw man and ad hominem arguments and smoke pot for hyperactivity and headaches (which I can sympathized with). I think this city deserves a little more authority and perspective on this. If anything, you are probably hurting your cause.

Hardin: I also checked out the links you provided. All of them follow discussions by people who use cannabis medicinally.

As far as the desire for “scientific” documentation, there have been hundreds of studies from all over the world showing the safety and efficacy of cannabis. Unfortunately, precious few have been done in the U.S. because the federal government has consistently blocked such research. A majority of California voters approved the use of cannabis for medical purposes 14 years ago but the government has systematically and deliberately done everything it can to prevent any progress on the issue in this country

The only solution has been to do an end run around the “scientific” process (a politically loaded process, apparently) and bring the medicine directly to people who need it. Of course, since cannabis is a botanical *plant* it should not be subject to the same rules as synthetic medicines in the first place.

We should legalize prostitution while we are at it and bill the town as the Amsterdam of the West Coast.

I believe this comment thread has run its course. Those who oppose medical cannabis will not be swayed by either facts or the anecdotal stories of thousands of suffering people who find relief in this natural remedy. However, to those who maintain that cannabis holds some special danger to women and children and puppy dogs and kitty cats, I present to you this handy chart.

Annual causes of death in the United States: http://www.csdp.org/publicservice/causes.htm (Spoiler alert: deaths from marijuana = 0)

“Annual causes of death in the United States: Web Link (Spoiler alert: deaths from marijuana = 0)”
—————————
Wow, impressive number. Let’s look at it a little more closely:

1. The link provided takes you to the webpage of the CSDP (Common Sense for Drug Policy), an advocacy group promoting medicinal marijuana.

2. The “statistical” comparision is actually an advertisement that was run in several papers. (Read the disclaimer at the top of the page.)

3. Looking at the sources for each substance death rate number reveals that each number cites a different source for their origin, and even represents datasets from differing years. Most noteably, the source cited for the Marijuana “statistic” is the only one using DAWN (Drug Abuse Warning Network).

4. Here’s a link to the DAWN database, compiled for 2008.

https://dawninfo.samhsa.gov/data/

Query for “All Missuse and Abuse”, and the webpage will provide you the option to download an 11 MB Excel spreadsheet with the results.

In the resulting excel sheet, you can select “died” for the dataset related to reported deaths.

In this report, Marijuana indeed shows up as “…” in all the data taken from 2004 – 2008, but “…” doesn’t mean zero deaths. From the table notes it indicates that “…” means the error in the data is too great to render a reliable number, and therefore no number is reported. IT DOESN’T MEAN ZERO. To highlight this point, alcohol alone deaths are also reported as “…”. In fact, about 90% of the substances on the list show as “…”.

So what does the advertisement really tell us? Only that the pro marijuana movement is more interested in providing numbers that support an agenda, rather than shed light on a contentious issue.

Since we’re slinging weblinks now, here’s some I found one from 2 government agencies,

US Department of Health and Human Services – http://ncadistore.samhsa.gov/catalog/facts.aspx?topic=54&h=drugs

National Institute on Drug Abuse –
http://www.drugabuse.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html

I realize there are those of you who probably think these two organizations are part of the Empire, but I welcome you Jedi’s to review the material and dispute the information.

Medical marijuana dispensaries should be established in Mountain View. Mountain View is great city, minus the chief of police who seems to be rather close minded. Anyway, I use marijuana legally for a medical ailment (and no, my doctors recommendation is actually real, not one of these point-click-print ones that don’t are legal. Frankly, I’m a little embarassed for the people who have posted comments that oppose the openning of dipensaries in MV. I won’t mention usernames… but they don’t seem to get it. More directly, it’s not about you or your kids. Your kids are the ones who obtain it, smoke it, and SELL it to other kids, and get in trouble. I used to smoke marijuana recreationally in high school, and many of your MVPD officers did too, and even you the reader probably did. I don’t know you, but while I was smoking pot I graduated high school with flying colors, currently I have a perfect driving record, and all is good. FYI your kids will ALWAYS have access to pot whether there is a dispensary in town or not. The dispensary in town is a SAFE, accessible place for me to get my medication. It’s the people who are irresponsible with their medication, or recreation, who make it look bad for the rest of us law-abiding patients. As a patient, I really don’t care if people use it recreationally. I REALLY DON’T! If given the choice, I would rather be driving behind someone who is stoned than someone who is drunk!

I’m a little annoyed that this topic of the dispensary has blown up the way it has. Aren’t there places where you can buy liqour? Oh yeah, its called a bar, and better yet, the liqour store! But can’t liqour actually kill you? Oh yeah, it can! Don’t kids drink liqour too? Oh yeah they do! I graduated from high school less than 4 years ago, and let me tell you from personal experience, there will always be premarital sex, teen pregnancy, drug use, pot smoking, and liqour drinking, and other yucky stuff done by kids. You can try all you want, but hindering patients access to their medication will NOT prevent these things from happening. If you think it will, then you should be ashamed for being so ignorant. How would you like it if your pharmacy that you (and your kids) got your prescription vicodin, ibuprofen, acetominophen, morphine, prozac, etc was torn down? They won’t be because they are REGULATED! Let’s REGULATE our dispensaries just like the pharmacies.

AND fyi, the chiefs of police with their “white papers” are on high horses (no pun intended). As a citizen, I have trouble taking anything they have to say seriously. I have seen them do things to good people purely out of spite or to save themselves from looking stupid. They are as credible as a slice of bread. At least then I can make a sandwich.

Clearly, my stand is Pro-dispensary in MV. I feel it will be in the city’s best interest overall to open it up. Those who oppose have yet to convince me with a “valid” compelling argument. Morally, if you have kids, and liqour in your house or take pills as medicine (as kids do all the time), you have no room to object to a dispensary and if you do then you ought to be ashamed. Another way to look at it: I can buy my marijuana from your kid as many many people do, or I can buy it from a dispensary. Marijuana is not hard for your kid to get PERIOD. If anything, it will be somewhat harder when the prices go up (club prices are not cheap, but you pay for safety and convenenience). This is pretty much what I have to say, since I don’t have any fancy links are fancy biased numbers. I just hope the city will make the right choice and choose safety over ignorance. Pro Dispensary!

However, progress is happening.

Efficacy: Studies show therapeutic value: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100217152331.htm
Cannabis smoking and lung health: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html
The “gateway” myth: http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/study-say-marijuana-no-gateway-drug-12116.html
The heroes at MAPS: http://www.maps.org/mmj/

“The U.S. government keeps extremely detailed records on mortality from all causes in the U.S. Those charts showing the number at zero come originally from federal records. But you don’t have to take my word for it.”
————————-
1. The DAWN weblink I provided is the source cited by the advertisement that purports zero fatalities due to marijuana. It is the federal record you are referring to, and there is no substance in that report, including Marijuana, that has zero deaths. Where the dataset was unreliable, a “…” was put, including for Marijuana. Again the “zero” count you speak of does not exist, it was incorrectly extrapolated by the creators of the advertisement.

And even if a “zero” count did exist for Marijuana,

2. The other substances in the DAWN report, like alcohol, have a much lower incidents of death than what is shown in the advertisement. In other words, the creator of the advertisement deliberately cherry-picked statistics from different sources to increase the perceived toxicity of all other substances, and to enhance the perceived safety of marijuana.

Its like picking out the “A’s” in your kid’s report card from kindergarten thru high school, ignoring the other grades, and then concluding that Junior is an “A” student…

You may justify this as acceptable “playing politics”, but the bottom line is that it is misleading and not a factual representation of the data, and it was presented in such a way as to be difficult to detect…like any advertisement.

“In California, the overwhelming majority (70-80%) support making marijuana available for medical purposes.”

“The voters spoke clearly back in 1996. Now we are trying to get Mountain View to honor the will of the voters by allowing compassionate care dispensaries.”

————-
Really?

California Prop 215 passed with 56% in favor and 44% against. Unless you consider Bush’s victory against Gore a resounding mandate for the country, I’d question your characterization of a clear consensus on this issue.

So when you proclaim that you are honoring the will of the people, be assured that you are doing so for roughly “HALF” of the people.

“There has been a blare of criticism surrounding the role of the pharmaceutical industry in research and testing. The industry funds much of the testing done for the F.D.A. Drug companies donate money to hospitals, sponsor posh conferences in exotic locations, provide inducements to physicians to prescribe their drugs, lobby the F.D.A. and Congress—for example, successfully to prevent Medicare from using its bargaining leverage to reduce the price of medications—and generally use their profits to keep a seat at every table.” …
“Science, particularly medical science, is not a skyscraper made of Lucite. It is a field strewn with black boxes. There have been many medical treatments that worked even though, for a long time, we didn’t know why they worked—aspirin, for example. And drugs have often been used to carve out diseases. Malaria was ‘discovered’ when it was learned that it responded to quinine. Someone was listening to quinine. As Nicholas Christakis, a medical sociologist, has pointed out, many commonly used remedies, such as Viagra, work less than half the time, and there are conditions, such as cardiovascular disease, that respond to placebos for which we would never contemplate not using medication, even though it proves only marginally more effective in trials. Some patients with Parkinson’s respond to sham surgery.” (http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2010/03/01/100301crat_atlarge_menand?currentPage=all)

Hardin’s unshakable faith in the scientific method as applied to medicine is itself a sham. He seems to lack any concept of the larger picture- the politics, economic interests and scientific and moral confusion which accompany the process he so loves.

But at least he knows where his bread is buttered. (Plus, he’s obviously enjoyed playing devil’s advocate and showing off his superior intellect. This fits the mold of the know-it-all technical type, a common personality in Silicon Valley. These are men – they’re always male- who think their minds have constant access to unassailable logic, even though they don’t.)

As I stated earlier, nothing Hardin, me or anybody else says here will make a bit of difference. This is happening, like it or not.

Localmom: http://legalmarijuanadispensary.com/ Just enter your zip code and you can find all the local dispensaries. Please go speak with the folks there to find out how courageous and compassionate this movement really is.

Hardin: Prop 215 was passed by a simple majority of Californians 14 years ago. This has now grown to an overwhelming majority of *all Americans* (80%) today. http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Politics/medical-marijuana-abc-news-poll-analysis/story?id=9586503 That counts as a clear consensus in my book.

The reason proponents like me cite the 1988 DEA Ruling is because it is such a clear example of science being trumped by politics. The choice of the DEA head administer to ignore science and leave cannabis as a Schedule 1 drug was a slap in the face to the scientific method. In the 20-plus years since, the government has consistently blocked science and lied about the safety and efficacy of cannabis.

You have to be pretty naive to think the government will ever allow the science to proceed unless We the People force the issue by doing an end run around the cruel and corrupt approval process.

In ancient times cannabis was thought to be sacred and thought of as the herb of knowledge. Kings smoked it habitually and used it as a means to expand knowledge for wise and compassionate living among there kingdoms. The view of the opposing parties on this web page have been framed by hundreds of years of social conditioning about the use of cannabis. The existence of cannabis in the Americas has been completely oppressed by monetary acquisition through similar substances (tobacco, lumber, oil). The truth is cannabis and hemp could be used in place of all of these now oversized corporate industries whose power has become far scarier than the legalization of a plant. Think about why you don’t like cannabis. It is medicine, structural material, clothing, and food Yet the way it makes you feel and think is its most powerful use. Open your mind and realize the truth about cannabis. It is amazing and can alter your perception from one of negativity and darkness to one of hope, compassion, and wisdom. Dont fear your child may use marijuana. Fear that they follow the path of so many Americans who entrap themselves in monetary and mental slavery everyday. Fear that they will get a job that consumes there entire life and persuades them to believe they need to purchase and own things. Fear that they may never seek there true goals but strive for monetary gain and social status. This comes from my heart and is no joke.