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A strange standoff between the Church of Scientology and a group calling itself “Anonymous” played out during a downtown demonstration Saturday morning.
About 20 members of Anonymous, most wearing masks and carrying signs with anti-Scientology slogans, stood for about an hour across the street from the Dianetics center at 391 Castro.
The event was said to be one of several across the country organized on March 15 by the group, which uses the Internet for most of its communications.
It is not clear what exactly caused the friction between the two groups. Two Scientology members, giving a presentation to the Voice last Friday, said Anonymous is a terrorist organization with no real point to its actions beyond spreading fear and mayhem for their own sake. They presented videos to support their claims.
The previous Friday, two Anonymous members came to the Voice to decry the practices of the Church of Scientology, which they said has destroyed families and lives, and even caused the deaths of innocent people.
Two people taking part in Saturday’s demonstration said they were former church members, and claimed that the Church of Scientology has broken up their families.
“There’s real brainwashing going on — people will defend [Scientology] with their lives,” said Bill Offerman, a former member of the church.
Offerman said he joined the church in 1969 in San Francisco, where he was a member for 14 years. “It seemed to promise self-betterment,” he said.
Holding a sign that read, “Scientology split up my family,” Offerman claimed his sister and her children were forbidden to speak to him after he became disillusioned with the church — an alleged practice known as “disconnection policy.” His sister’s children also are not allowed to use the Internet, he said: “The Internet, I think, is the church’s worst enemy.”
Anonymous members handed out fliers advertising a Web site called www.exscientologykids.com, where several former members, including the niece of the church’s president, talk about their experiences. “I was born, I grew up, I escaped,” is the site’s tag line.
Offerman was reluctant to give his name at first, because of what he called the “fair game policy” — another alleged practice which he said Scientology has used to justify “some pretty horrible things” done to its perceived enemies.
As for the Anonymous members with him on the street that day, “These people aren’t terrorists,” he said.
The Church of Scientology vigorously disagrees, and members of the Mountain View church, located on Easy Street, said they could prove it.
“I believe they are domestic terrorists,” said public affairs director Matt Ward, presenting a package of information about the Internet-based group’s activities since it began its anti-Scientology campaign in January.
Since then, he says, Scientology churches have been subjected to hate campaigns all over the country. He said Anonymous tactics include thousands of abusive messages and threats <0x2014> including bomb threats — by e-mail and phone, Web site hacking, vandalism and other attacks. Ward said the local church is working with police to find the people who made threatening phone calls to Mountain View offices this year, but so far no leads have been found.
Ward played several videos, posted on YouTube, where supposed Anonymous members vowed to destroy the Church of Scientology. The videos were stylized to be disturbing and intimidating, and demonstrated that a group defined by its anonymity can’t be accountable for its actions.
“That’s what’s scary about it,” said Darlene Bright, a Scientologist who accompanied Ward.
Ward said the videos and actions of Anonymous were more than just intimidating: In many cases they could be legally defined as hate speech. He provided documents showing racist and other offensive messages which the Church of Scientology attributes to Anonymous.
Protestors on Saturday had a different take on the group.
“Being anonymous is not our strength, it’s our numbers,” said one member who called himself Dave. He admitted that “Most of us actually don’t know each other, we’re complete strangers.”
With one exception, the only protesters not wearing masks were former members of the Church of Scientology. One such former member, Rose Velasco, told her story.
“It’s hard to talk about this because it sounds stupid,” Velasco said. “I was a follower. I thought it was the answer to the universe.”
She said she was recruited, like many others, during that “critical time after high school, when you are up against the world.” She was 19, and remained a member for 30 years, attending Scientology churches in San Jose, Mountain View and Los Gatos.
Velasco said she endured constant requests for money at the San Jose and Los Gatos churches. “It’s a business,” she said.
Velasco said she parked at the police station on Saturday, because she and her sister were followed to their cars after a similar protest in February — a typical intimidation tactic, say the protesters. Despite the perceived risk, she said the protests are “healing” for her.
You might want to note that Anonymous has condemned any and all acts of violence against Scientologists or Scientologist properties, despite harassment and intimidation that private investigators hired by the Church have used against Anonymous.
Anonymous is a breath of fresh air, and truth.
If the “church” felt so threatened, why make youtube videos and not calls to the police?
Also, I fail to see how criticism of controversial practices–including separation of families, denial of medical care for not only their followers but for all people–counts as “hate speech.” If their organization is involved with illegal practices or seek to deny others their basic rights, then it is not only “not hateful” to speak out about it–its a civic responsibility.
That package of information they gave the Mountain View Voice contained a DVD about anonymous too right? Well theres a video on it with a supposed bomb threat against Scientology. Interesting thing about it is the quality on the DVD is far superior to the quality on the original YouTube video. How is it that Scientology got such a bette version of the threat if the only thing available was a low res version from youtube???
Perhaps, they had the original non youtube version? And whywould they have this version? Because they made the threat themselves.
This is an old tactic, they did it to Paulette Cooper, they did it one year ago to the BBC, no joke.
It is funny how the Church of Scientology labels peaceful protesters as ‘terrorists’. It reminds me of how they accused the BBC of faking demonstrations and making terrorist threats – http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/14/nbbc14.xml
I don’t know much about Anonymous, but I do know they are up against a vicious and dangerous cult. Scientologists claim they have changed their ways since the Guardian’s Office scandals of the 1970s (resulting in criminal convictions of 11 high level Scientologists). However, the kidnapping and false imprisonment of Martine Boublil by four scientologists happened in January of this year. This indicates Scientologists are still using the same cruel practices that led to the death of Lisa McPherson in 1995.
Scientology ALWAYS plays the “religious bigots” and “terrorists” cards whenever anyone dares to question its ethics and actions. Did any of the Scientologists who were howling about “domestic terrorists” bother to ACTUALLY ADDRESS any of the topics the protesters brought up?
NO. And they never will. The next time a Mountain View Voice reporter interviews these Scientologists — stick to your guns and press them to answers, directly, questions posed on the protester’s signs… rather than letting them change topics and engage in ad hominem attacks.
If you doubt that Scientology would stoop so low as to do something like try to frame it’s critics by faking bomb threats to Scientology… Google “operation freakout”
This wouldn’t be the first time they’ve done this.
DON’T LET THEM SWITCH TOPICS! MAKE THEM ANSWER A DAMN QUESTION.
Anonymous is not protesting the right of an individual to practice any religion they see fit, rather the continual tactics of intimidation, harassment and SLAPP lawsuits.
Anonymity is not foreign to American political discourse, especially when the opposing side is considerably more powerful. John Adams and Thomas Jeffeson wrote the Federalist Papers under the pen names of Publius and Brutus respectively. Their arguments turned our pretty well it seems. I wonder how this one will?
You might want to note that Anonymous has taken credit for several illegal acts of violence against the Church. Meantime, back on Wabash, the protesters stopped by for a cup of refreshment.
Actually, you might want to note that Anonymous has NOT taken credit for “several illegal acts of violence against the Church.” Aside from the DDoS Anonymous instrumented against Scientology-run websites following their attempts to have a video of Tom Cruise pulled from numerous websites, Anonymous has done nothing but protest peacefully outside of Scientology buildings.
Anonymous has nothing against Scientologists; we are speaking out against a corrupt organization that uses fear of litigation and personal harm to oppress not only critics, but its own members.
Since the DDoS attacks (which Anonymous has now largely disowned), the only thing Anonymous has done that even remotely approaches an illegal act of violence is a few noise violations in Atlanta, and it’s arguable that the police were being overzealous there. Sure, the Church of Scientology can make all the claims they want, but I can also claim that I’m the Emperor of the Universe. If their claims don’t make sense, they should not be taken seriously.
How does anyone know that Anon members did not make bomb threats? If there is no organization, it follows hat any “member/non” could have done it.
It has been years since the leaders of Scientology were thrown in jail in the United States. We are falling behind Germany, France, Belgium, Canada, Australia, Russian and other Western nations. When will America close this shameful gap in social progress? Thank goodness there are people like those in Anonymous to draw attention to their criminal behaviors.
It’s amazing how many people read all the horror stories against the “Church” of Scientology but never stop to ask themselves: how do I KNOW any of this is true? Or whether it’s been distorted or exaggerated?
Ask yourself: why do the foaming-at-the-mouth haters always invoke isolated incidents that happened years ago, like “Operation Snow White” from the 1970s and Lisa McPherson’s death in 1995? These things also only point to alleged wrongdoing by a few individuals, and do NOT reflect on the Church as a whole, no matter how much the haters would like to spin it that way.
Ask yourself: if Scientology really is doing even a tenth of all these horrible crimes, committing murders, operating slave camps, etc., then why is it that you only hear about this stuff on the internet, and not in the real world? Where are the congressional hearings? Where are the FBI investigations? Where’s some just plain arrests?
The arrests never come, because the stories are unproven internet gossip and rumors started by ex-members who were kicked out of the Church for their own malfeasance and now they want revenge on the Church. Since Scientology is already so weird and wacky, the press and the bloggers eat this stuff up and take every unverified rumor at face value. Both the pro-cult and anti-cult spin doctors are massively exaggerating their position, and I wish both sides would just get a life and go away.
Abba ree.
Stop being an Scientologist apologist. Is theh OSA paying you to refute the common allegations the Co$ has garnered worldwide? Google “operation snow white” and “Fair game”, and may the scales drop from your eyes. Do not be afraid to leave the cult. It is much better on the outside. Whatever decision you make, be well.
Anonymous would like to extend a cordial invitation to all who would be willing to lend their strength to the members of the Co$ who have been forced by the church to choose between their family and their faith.
The Co$ “disconnect” policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disconnection) has destroyed far too many families, and it is time for this needless destruction to be brought to light.
Operation Reconnect: 04/12/2008.
Please see:
http://forums.enturbulation.org/
http://www.partyvan.info/index.php/Main_Page
http://www.xenu.net/
for more information.
United as One…
Divided by Zero.
Back in college, my friend and I passed by the Scientology office near campus. Out of curiosity, we decided to take the “Free Personality Test” they were offering. My friend and I entered the building a few seconds apart. Because of this, the employees must have thought my friend and I did not know each other. We were helped by two separate employees and filled out our answers independently at separate desks. Our scantron cards were also graded and evaluated separately by the two different Scientology employees.
Even though it was not the case, my test results made it seem like I was depressed and that my life was without purpose. I was then urged to buy and read some of L. Ron Hubbard’s books and to join the Church of Scientology. I got suspicious, declined the offer and left the building. Afterwards, my friend and I exchanged notes and soon figured out that they didn’t really grade our actual test answers but instead just showed us the same exact answer sheet with the same depressing results.
Scientology is a cult and a scam and not a legitimate religion!
Abba Ree: I invite you to spend some time online researching the online court records of any state of your choosing. I did, and found out that a wrongful death suit went to jury trial about 10 yrs ago in Missouri. THAT isn’t a “gossip” site. Interestingly, the entire CHURCH was listed as a defendent , as well as one of your most “reputable” IAS members.
You say the arrests never come? Well, this one did – and went all the way to trial. The MO site had FIVE PAGES of lawsuits/arrests/etc. – ALL since 1996.
Learn about that in which you defend. If nothing else, be an educated consumer and make sure your money is being well spent!
Enjoy your weekend! I can’t wait to celebrate MY religion’s most celebrated occasion on Sunday – and I learned ALL ABOUT IT WITHOUT SPENDING ONE PENNY. Happy Easter, everyone!
Wow what a shock, a post from the infamous terryeo defending the “church”.
The “video presentation” was a joke and absurd fantasy at best – a vain attempt by the OSA to plant “terrorist” videos and blame “anonymous”. All the Sci’s have are the dos attacks on the websites and some prank calls early in the movement. That is hardly terrorist and is despicable that they would compare what anon does with “terrorism” as we know it post 9/11, more “hot button” wording to make themselves poor little victims. The very real crimes of scientology are FULLY DOCUMENTED in police reports and court records, look them up.
See you March 15th Abba Ree and Terryeo! We’ll be back, you can count on it.
Haha make that April 15th! Happy Easter all – attend the church of your choice for free- oops, well not the Scientology one 😉
Abba Ree, if you want to know about recent arrests of Scientologists for crimes and abuse of human rights, let me point you towards the case of Martine Boublil, a Frenchwoman rescued by Italian Police in January 2008 from a house in Sardinia where she was being held against her will by Scientologists. Four Scientologists have been arrested. This has been widely reported i the French media. Martine Boublil was kidnapped and imprisoned, kept in horrible sanitary conditions and not spoken to for an extended period of time, she was saved only because neighbors contacted police with their suspicions. This happened two months ago. The parallels with the 1995 Lisa McPherson case are disturbing.
It’s very interesting that the anonymous protestors have been labeled terrorists by the church, when in reality in mostly teenagers and young adults seeming to have a very good time together and protesting something they all unanymously seem to feel is wrong and injust.
Frankly, I think the scientologists are showing their true colors by reacting in such a way. I have personally witnessed scientologists stalking members of anonymous, and everyone can see the slander.
If Scientology really believes that Anonymous is a group of terrorists, why aren’t they turning their “evidence” over to Homeland Security instead of putting together fancy PR packages with it?
It they (OSA = Scientology’s “Office of Special Affairs”) really were cooperating with law enforcement, it would seem that they would be following instructions which are typical in these kinds of cases which is to stay away from the media and to let law enforcement handle it. If it really were “terrorism” I doubt the police would want important evidence which might be central to getting a conviction compromised because it is broadcast all over the media.
And what kind of a “church” has its own internal investigative/police unit, anyway?
I just want to point out one glaringly missing point here – when you evaluate a subject, you have to study…the subject. We spoke to a few anonymous people and you know what? They’re just a bunch of hired high school and college kids who don’t have a clue what Scientology is, never read a book on it. They were just promised some beer and parties and off they go with their signs.
If you want to be a true free thinker, study the subject you’re condemning. That’s a no-brainer, don’t you think?
>>lumar
There were promises of beer and parties? I feel gypped.
Or I would, if the entertainment value were the only thing that had me spending my Saturday giving out flyers about a cult’s abuses on the street. 🙂
lumar,
can you please upload the video so we can all laugh at these ignorant anonymous protestors? What? Are we supposed to just take your word for it? Unless you can pony up the evidence, then you are just throwing ad hominem in a futile attempt to discredit. My crystal ball says Thursday’s gonna be a bad day for you! 😀
Lumar, if we’re all paid, where is the cash? It’s not here in my pocket. If we don’t know what we’re talking about, how come I can rattle off xenu.net, xenutv.com, exscientologykids.com and youfoundthecard.com and describe the content there fine? And if we’re all kids, how come a huge number of us are over 30? Mind you, I’m sure our 200-odd “Blue Rinse Brigade” team would be happy to be picked out as so young!
Lumar, you repeat the standard line your OSA handlers are giving all of the Scientologist working on the web. Please. We’ve done our research. Have you?
Are you familiar with Ghandi’s words? “First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they attack you, then you win.” So thanks for helping us win!
As I said – read the subject you’re condemning.
Nice try lumar. You have avoided all points raised. Don’t think we didn’t notice.
Please enlighten us as to what material we have “not read” or “misread”? Unfortunately for you, most people commenting are talking about Anonymous and the fake terrorist claims of the Organization of scientology…..thus there is nothing that needs ‘reading’.
You wrote: “So thanks for helping us win!” this is a common self-assurance technique. Are you convinced yet?
PS: Please ask your church to provide the full headers of (okay I’ll be nice) 100 of these ‘millions’ “threat” emails. I am sure we would be most interested in that… or would it take too long to fake them up?
I’ve read it, lumar. Here are some of L. Ron Hubbard’s own words:
“Somebody some day will say ‘this is illegal’. By then be sure the orgs say what is legal or not.” – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 4 January 1966
“MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY.” – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 9 March 1972, MS OEC 384
“The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly.” – L. Ron Hubbard, A MANUAL ON THE DISSEMINATION OF MATERIAL, 1955
“ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.” – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 18 October 1967
[“SP,” of course, means “Suppresive Person,” one who criticizes Scientology]
“There is no more ethical group on this planet than ourselves.” – L. Ron Hubbard, KEEPING SCIENTOLOGY WORKING. 7 February 1965, reissued 27 August 1980
By the way, you notice how the CoS’s new website removed all references to Ron’s name and replaced them with references to Miscavige? What do you make of that?
“Ask yourself: why do the foaming-at-the-mouth haters always invoke isolated incidents that happened years ago, like “Operation Snow White” from the 1970s and Lisa McPherson’s death in 1995? These things also only point to alleged wrongdoing by a few individuals, and do NOT reflect on the Church as a whole”
Abba, if you REALLY THINK that it does not reflect on an organization as a whole when eleven of its top-ranking members including the second-in-command of the whole operation and the wife of its founder plead guilty to the largest government infiltration in United States history and go to Federal prison, I can only shake my head at your gullibility. Not to mention that such an attitude is markedly inconsistent with how Scientologists treat the alleged wrongdoings of psychiatrists: if one psychiatrist is found to have done anything bad, or indeed, even to have TREATED anyone who does something bad, the Scientologists are eager to declare that THAT reflects on the entire practice of psychiatry. More than once, when there has been a school shooting, the Scientologists have rushed to the messageboards to declare that they were SURE it would turn out that the shooter had been under psychiatric care at SOME point in the past and thus the shooting must be the RESULT of that psychiatric care, no matter how long ago it had occurred or how briefly. And these are the same people who claim that it doesn’t MATTER that Scientologists took a young woman who needed professional medical care AWAY from that medical care, treated her illegally with illegally obtained drugs and Scientology for seventeen days, and then, even when they realized the need to get her real medical help, bypassed four hospitals (including one just TWO minutes away) to drive forty-five minutes just so that they could get to a hospital with a Scientologist in the ER — just because that happened ‘too long ago’???
Interesting. The Church of Scientology, with its millions and millions of dollars of resources, and law enforcement TOGETHER cannot find a single lead out of thousands of alleged threatening messages? I smell bs.
Lumar. Most of us have studied the subject. Have you? By study, I mean more than just reading “Dianetics” by L. Ron Hubbard. I mean reading official court documents. Operation Snow White was the largest domestic infiltration of a government agency. How do you think they got tax-exemption? Not once has the US court system declared Scientology to be a true church. Any, when you ask a bunch of high school kids, you’re going to get high-school knowledge. But is there a problem with that? You don’t need to join a a *true* hate group to know its wrong. . . WAIT! We were paid? There was beer? If we were being paid by psychiatrists, this conflict would be much more in our favor. If we were promised beer, how did all of those protests stay peaceful?
P.S. Lumar
“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they attack you, then you win.” – Ghandhi
2/10 protests were met with little backlash. Scientology ignored Anonymous..
Between 2/10 and 3/15, one Scientology official said anonymous was “just a bunch of high school kids”. As you yourself have said. Now Anonymous is being attacked, labeled domestic terrorists, and a few have been taken into custody by blatantly corrupt policemen.
So who’s victory are you predicting, my friend?
Also, what is your stance on Xenu?
When you research or criticize a subject, you have to study THE SUBJECT. To be truly objective and sane about it, one has to study BOTH SIDES.
Read Dianetics and the millions of success stories – that’s what you haven’t read as well as other source materials.
lumar,
Let me take your example and apply it to a different situation. in 2001, Osama bin Laden orchestrated the terrorist attacks against the US. He said he did it for Allah and because of the kafir atrocities against Muslims.
Do I need to read both sides of the ‘story’ before I am allowed to stand up and say what he did was wrong? (before you try to divert the convo be aware I am very knowledgeable on Islam so no dice for you).
Why can’t we stand up and say the CoS is completely WRONG in many of its practices? What will I need to do after reading Dianetics? And after that? After that? How many little ‘busy work’ tasks will you assign (to keep me away from criticizing) before YOU judge that we can speak out against CoS’s practices?
I’m sorry but your statements do not make sense. By the way, I notice you are attacking only and never defending. How come you wont answer anything put to you? Repeatedly insisting your opponent is “ignorant” is a transparent tactic indeed!!
if you want to know who the enemy REALLY is, listen to http://www.wtprn.com and go to http://www.prisonplanet.com , watch the film “Freedom to Fascism”.
Support Ron Paul who wants to bring back our constitution. By the way, those anonymous people we spoke to were all in enthusiastic support of this awesome man.
Understand what’s actually happening in this country and who’s behind it.
lumar,
WONDERFUL! A scientologist AND a twoofer!!
Sorry but I’ve read the Quran, the Tafseer, the ahadith AND the sira. You are wrong. Osama is a good muslim. Muhammad himself admitted he was a terrorist. However you wouldn’t know that ’cause LRH was ignorant about other beliefs/cultures… I seriously LOL’d at his statements about Muhammad & the Bible LOL.
Anywho, you’re again AVOIDING the questions. Please address them. You can see them above ^^^
Why would any protester even need to read Dianetics? We aren’t saying that there is anything wrong with the beliefs. We are saying that there is something wrong with the management. If the catholic priesthood was molesting little boys, I don’t need to read the bible to recognize that that is wrong. In the same way, I don’t need to read Dianetics to recognize that intimidation, blackmail, extortion, and family disconnection is wrong.
That being said, if you or anyone else reading this thread is a scientologist, could you attempt to deliver a message to Stephanie Headley from her father, Bernie Headley?
Here is the message:
Dear Stephanie,
I want you to know I miss you very much. I am sorry I couldn’t be totally honest with you when your brother blew from Gold. I was honoring his request to keep all information about him confidential. You should know he and his wife are doing very well and have two children now! Your aunts, uncles, cousins and brother also miss you. They all would like to see you again soon. It has been three years since we last spoke and I just can’t understand how you can put the church before your father and family. I hope it isn’t really your choice. If you would like to contact me be assured it would be most welcome!
Again, we all miss you and love you and hope your return is forthcoming.
Love,
Dad
This is getting boring, you’ve not even understanding. Read again what I wrote above and try to have a good day without all that hate – it’ll kill you.
It seems to me that for the most part the ‘Anonymous’ protesters do not target the beliefs of Scientology members. Anonymous DOES criticize specific Scientology organization practices such as charging for access to theology, stalking and ‘fair gaming’ critics, disconnecting critics or former members from their families, and refusing to directly answer specific questions about these practices.
Demonstrating reform in those areas rather than responding with cries of “hate speech” might help quell this growing wave of criticism. How about it?
No worries lumar,
If you do not wish to answer the questions above ^^^ we understand. Have a good one 🙂 However if your organisation CAN eventually pony up the evidence requested, it would restore much of your lost credibility in the eyes of the world.
Thanks 🙂
My apologies lumar the previous comment was mine oops!
Despite exaggerated claims to the contrary, protesters are PEACEFULLY bringing much needed attention to a bad situation.
1. Scientology is a method of mind control.
2. Scientology maintains a network of armed-guard prison camps.
3. Scientology gained tax exempt status in the U.S. illegally.
4. Scientology forces women to have abortions.
5. Scientology destroys the family unit through the policy of “disconnection”.
6. Scientology exploits children by denying education, medical treatment, and healthy living conditions while forcing them to perform manual labor on Scientology-owned properties.
7. Because Scientology is a method of mind control, 99% of all Scientologists are unaware of items 1-6.
Scientologists may live in ignorance, but thanks to these protests the rest of the world doesn’t have to.
I have studied Scientology objectively for years, and can truly say that the average member of Anonymous knows proven facts that people in Scientology aren’t allowed to, or have been given “explanations” about unfavourable things that don’t hold water except to those who can’t handle the truth.
It’s not your fault that something so dear to you is run by people so far from the morals they teach. But you can’t expect not to be called on it. There are no millions of testimonies, by the way, and any cult, no matter how destructive, can furnish scarily similar testimonials. Yes, your testimonies scare us, and they should when we recognize the ever-so-happy but hollowed-out minds behind them.
I dare you to pursue this with your church without being accused of being a PTS. That’s what brainwashing is all about, and we can only be sad for you that it is this way and the only people who could possibly see it clearly are those on the outside.
If you are the average Scientologist, perhaps you have non-Scientology family that are rightfully worried or critical about your personality shifts, lost finances, and the like. Have you disconnected from them? If so, PELASE re-connect and really listen AND TRUST what they feel and say. If you can break the spell long enough … well, life wont be as exciting or “perfect”, and it will be a tremendous psychological challenge for some, but your life will be REAL, and you will begin to heal with those who REALLY love you.
********* Note for others: Martine Boublil and Lisa McPherson were not coincidentally similar. They were both going through the “Introspection Rundown” which I encourage you to read up on, using the CHURCH’S OWN SOURCES. If you aren’t in too deep, it will scare the crap out of you, and easily be seen as the most basic violation of human rights possible. This could happen to YOU or your family members if they are under the influence of Scientology (the former trying to escape, in fact). Also, read the news articles for the church’s denial of responsibility despite the high-ranking people involved and purposeful use of “religious tech.”
Lumar, you don’t need to participate in a practice to study it. Scientologists criticize psychiatry and psychology – they have the goal of the ‘global obliteration’ of psychology. How many Scientologists have participated in psychology?
Given the hypothesis that scientology is a cult that uses mind control techniques on it’s adherents, you can’t very well take the testimony of cultists at face value. The only neutral observers are going to have to be on the outside looking in, yet due to scientology’s doctrines every attempt at a 3rd party neutral view is attacked as an enemy of the ‘church’. Thus you end up with documentaries like BBC’s Panorama. Let’s not forget that the same accusations that the ‘church’ is throwing at anonymous (i.e. that it is a religious hate group and a terrorist group) were also thrown at the BBC.
All you people are insane and way too obsessed with Scientology!!
I don’t CARE who got killed or who got brainwashed or who was stupid enough to give all their money to an obvious CULT. Idiots get suckered into Christian TV preachers, transparent email scams, all kinds of crap. SO WHAT?? Life goes on. Stop acting so self-important about your noble mission to save us all from Scientology and get a job or something.
Scientology is so blatantly ridiculous that anyone who gets suckered into it gets exactly what they deserve for being so stupid. So stop trying to act all humanitarian, there will always be gullible people and there will always be a Church of Scientology in some form or other to hoodwink them. You can’t change that. They have so much money and real estate now that they’ll just pop up somewhere else instantly, so be prepared to spend the rest of your short and pointless lives playing Whack-A-Mole.
Why don’t you go after the Mafia or something instead? Or unscrupulous used car salesmen.
to correct the article, those protest weren’t just “all over the country”. we’re all over the world. and we will continue. 12th of April, at the Co$ Org – no matter where you live, we’ll be at any Org. see you there.
Nispey said:
“Why don’t you go after the Mafia or something instead? Or unscrupulous used car salesmen.”
It’s PRECISELY that sort of broken logic and flabby thinking that let a cult like Scientology gain a large enough foothold to start doing some real damage worldwide.
Why don’t YOU go out and tackle something worthwhile? Chances are good that your idea of “doing good” is to sit back and pontificate. Nice job.
oh, abbe rae…there are organizations and governmental agencies that are looking very hard at $cientology right now. you haven’t seen nor heard of this yet, because—-well, they’re still looking at you. erm, “them.” ’cause i’m sure you’re not a $cieno, right?
$cientology, the world is watching you.
this insideous, frightening cult. a cult that has had members convicted of one thing, abbe rae: $cientologists are guilty of the largest infiltration of the united states government in the history of our country. google operation snow white. ever since your fruity little cult found out all that information, they’ve been able to get away with absolutely everything they’ve wanted to get away with—including becoming a tax-exempt organization even though the supreme court of our land declared they were not a religion. in a super dooper sekrit meeting between $cientologists david miscavige and mike rinder AND the head of the irs—suddenly $cientology’s 25 year battle to be granted tax-exempt status was granted. even though many people have tried to find out what went on in that closed door meeting that suddenly changed $cientology’s tax status? no one who was in there will talk.
and $cientology doesn’t get just the regular tax-exempt status like other churches…$cientology is SPESHUL. they get an 80% tax break on anything and everything they need to purchase for their “religion” that helps them further their religious education.
i study at the church of chocolate and sweet treats. i would like an 80% tax break for all my yummy choccy. gimme my tax break.
most all of us would like that 80% tax break that the $cieno’s get. give it to all of us.
oh, $cientology…the world is watching you.
i could go on and tell you that i have first hand knowledge that flag in clearwater is dealing in human trafficking and they’re enslaving teenagers to do their manual labor, but i’ll just let amnesty international and the other governmental agencies handle that one and ya’ll can read about it when that big story comes out.
there’s so much more that this cult does. there’s just not enough room to tell it all here. research it yourself and then step back and ask yourself if you want this kind of thing going on in your world.
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.enturbulation.org
google operation snow white, operation freakout, and lisa mcpherson
educate yourself
$cientology…the world is watching you.
THIS IS WHY
WE ARE LEGION
All acts of violence which has ever been committed against Scientology customers, ringleaders, crime bosses, or business offices have ALWAYS been committed by fellow customers. They has never been a single incident where any Scientology person or building was ever hurt or damaged by anyone OTHER than a fellow Scientologist.
Scientology crime bosses like to spew insane hatred about how one of their offices was shot up and set fire to in Oregon however what Scientology doesn’t mention is that it was a Scientology customer who did it, a deranged man who was furious for falling for the Scientology frauds and bait-and-switch bunko frauds and he was wanting his money back.
The phenomena of Scientologists committing violent acts agianst Scientology crime bosses and buildings is known as “Another Satisfied Customer” among the human rights and civil rights activists of the world who have been working to stop Scientology’s crimes and abuses for decades.
If anyone doubts the legitimary of my statements, Google is your friend — use it. To date not one single act of violence against a Scientology owner / operator / customer has ever been committed by anyone who was not also a Scientology customer. Not one.
As it stands, the Scientology crime syndicate has at most 40,000 remaining customers world wide, thanks largely to the ARSCC which has been dismantleing the criminal enterprise since 1993 by exposing and innoculating — and by helping people wake up and walk away.
April 12’th is Operation Reconnect. Anonymous will be working to help restore the families that the Scientology crime syndicate has destroyed. Anonymous continues to do the work that law enforcement is supposed to do: protect the citizens.
Go Anonymous! Go Operation Reconnect! And go the human and civil rights that every person on Earth is supposedly granted and which Scientology denies — for the greed of mnoney.
http://www.reconnect.org/ — Operation Reconnect
http://www.crackpots.org/ — Quack medical fraud
http://www.torymagoo.org/ — In Scientology for 30 years
My opinions only and only my opinions.
You, Nipsey, are the perfect candidate for recruitment into the cult.
Am I the only person who notices just how cult-like these “Anonymous” derfs are with their repeated phrases and slogans, and their robotic insistence that they are 100% RIGHT about everything? And if you disagree with them, even just a little bit, they smugly tell you you’re WRONG and that they know it all, and they’re here to help educate you. Wow, just like Scientology itself!
Suggest to a Scieno that maybe LRH was wrong and maybe some aspects of the Church’s structure are not good. They won’t hear you. Their mind just shuts down and they repeat their party line.
Suggest to an “Anonymous” Scientology-hater that maybe not all the rumors about the Church are true and maybe assigning blame for the bad things is a lot less simplistic than they’re making it. They won’t hear you. Their mind just shuts down and they repeat their party line.
I’ve read up on Scientology in the past weeks. For those who say, who the hell cares about those people. Well think about the children, children who don’t have a choice. They don’t get to choose to not be a Scientologist. Ex-Scientology Kids who grew up Scientologists have told their stories about life growing up. About how they were never able to see their parents. Jenna Miscaviage Hill rarely/never saw her parents. She left 5 years after her parents because she didn’t want to leave the church with people she didn’t even know. Someone has to help those children who never had a normal family, and if Anonymous is willing to do it, then I am all for it.
If you’ve skimmed your way down here, you may have missed this post by Bernie above. He sums up what Anonymous and Operation Reconnect are doing this for is better than anything else…..
“if you or anyone else reading this thread is a scientologist, could you attempt to deliver a message to Stephanie Headley from her father, Bernie Headley?
Here is the message:
Dear Stephanie,
I want you to know I miss you very much. I am sorry I couldn’t be totally honest with you when your brother blew from Gold. I was honoring his request to keep all information about him confidential. You should know he and his wife are doing very well and have two children now! Your aunts, uncles, cousins and brother also miss you. They all would like to see you again soon. It has been three years since we last spoke and I just can’t understand how you can put the church before your father and family. I hope it isn’t really your choice. If you would like to contact me be assured it would be most welcome!
Again, we all miss you and love you and hope your return is forthcoming.
Love,
Dad”
Rumors? How about eye witness accounts? Personal stories from people who were in the cult. Court documents? Direct quotes from the wacky chap who started it all? Thats a little more than rumors bud.
“Suggest to an “Anonymous” Scientology-hater that maybe not all the rumors about the Church are true and maybe assigning blame for the bad things is a lot less simplistic than they’re making it. They won’t hear you. Their mind just shuts down and they repeat their party line.”
What is your basis for that statement, Mod Podge? Can you give us an example? If you think that Anonymous is being too “simplistic” in “assigning blame for the bad things” to the Church of Scientology, then please give us an example of one of those bad things and where YOU think the blame should be assigned. Are you suggesting that the blame for “Operation Freakout”, the Church of Scientology’s plan to frame journalist Paulette Cooper for bomb threats, with the aim of getting her put into a mental institution or prison, should be shared between the Church and Cooper? Are you suggesting that Lisa McPherson should really be assigned some or all of the blame for her own death in Church custody, and if so does she also bear the blame for the subsequent coverup?
If you can’t provide an actual example, then your allegation seems to me to be more of an attempt to artificially reduce both sides to equal moral levels, rather than a realistic assessment of the situation.
The willingness to say anything and then to pretend it is the truth defines the immorality of anonymous. Call everyone else a liar, mis-quote others in order to further your own ends and malign the truth stops any possibility of understand.
Anonymous is an example of the dregs of society, where verbal intimidation rather then humane understanding is the rule.
These guys take a page right out of the Nazi propaganda manuals. “Make a lie so big that just denying it makes it sound true.”
Most are in high school who have never personally read a book by the author and now have become so bigoted that they see monsters around any corner.
If you have ever wondered how a population can become so incensed that in commits genocide this is how. This is what anonymous is about.
By the way John Adams and Thomas Jefferson did not write the Federalist papers. They were in Europe securing financing and trying to create good will for our country.(Alexander Hamilton, James Madison and John Jay wrote them.) Further the Federalist papers did not call for a removal of one groups rights under false pretense it called for securing the rights of all people forever under a new constitution.
This is an example of altering the truth to further a perverted end.
Well said, John. Spot-on. The world needs more sanity like yours.
Well said, John. Spot on. The world needs more sanity like yours.
Hey John,
Sounds like you’ve not only dismissed EVERYTHING said it the previous posts, but you’re REPEATING what has already been said by lumar. Seems like all arguments defending Scientology have a couple similar features:
1. They totally dismiss any claims raised against the church.
2. They try to put down Anonymous and make various allegations against the movement.
Interestingly enough, this is consistent with the “never defend, always attack” policy Scientology has towards criticism.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversy#.22Attack_the_Attacker.22_policy)
The comments that haven’t been pro-Scientology and/or anti-Anonymous have cited reliable sources, addressed allegations made against Anonymous, and have raised new issues instead of just repeating the old ones.
I respect your right to voice your opinion, but I’m afraid you aren’t helping your case unless you can support your claims. I admit I fully support the PEACEFUL protests of Anonymous and even attended the last one (March 15). This was after I did a lot of my own in-depth research and came to my own personal conclusions. I recently saw a poll showing the majority of Anonymous being of college age (including myself), so I would be careful about making such claims about Anonymous being mostly “high school students”.
By the way, perhaps you could enlighten me on what other things written in Nazi propaganda manuals, as I’m afraid that unlike you, I’ve never read them myself.
I wish both you and lumar all the best in the future.
John,
It’s a tiresome analogy that you and others seek to draw between protests against CofS and genocidal pogroms. Don’t you think that’s not only highly inapt but also profoundly insensitive to peoples who have undergone such suffering in reality? Correct me if I’m wrong, but there have been ZERO pogroms committed against Scientologists and no “hate crime” murders of Scientologists. There’s absolutely no parallel, and it’s downright offensive to draw these comparisons.
Scientology didn’t even exist until after WWII, and during the Civil Rights Movement the organization spent its time attempting to subvert many federal agencies in some bizarre power grab. You simply have no historical precedent whatsoever other than someone occassionally making fun of your beliefs and questioning the ethics of CofS as an organization. I keep hearing this rhetoric from Scientologists and it just sounds more puerile, petty, and derisive towards the actual victims of prejudice who you are cynically using to hide behind rather than have any salient discussion on the matter.
Also, I’ve read some things that make certain Scientology doctrines sound bigoted towards homosexuals. Tell me, is it official CofS doctrine that homosexuals are at fault for being too low on the tonescale? For a Scientologist, is it okay to be gay?
Read everything in the comments.
Don’t believe everything in the comments because all these people said so.
Go and search the internet! The official documents of Scientology are widely available and so are countless video’s, pictures and texts to back all these statements made here up.
Unlike $cientology, Anonymous is not an organization. Anonymous is not even a club. Anonymous is an idea, shared by a large and ever growing number of individuals. In a few short weeks, Anonymous has grown in numbers that match, perhaps even surpass the number of active $cientology participants world wide.
For anyone that shares the idea, that the $cientology organization should be dismantled in it’s present form, come and join with us in peaceful protest, at your nearest $cientology facility on April 12.
Expect us
Hey, Hubbard was the one who said that the 2% of the population that couldn’t achieve clear should be “quietly disposed of.”
Very well, let me shed some light on my own involvement in Anonymous.
About me: I’m 23, with two degrees, in school for my masters. I have read Dianetics. I have also read other Scientology related materials and studied it objectively.
I have also read the original 1934 document titled “Scientologie”, which the CoS vehemently denies existance of, because it outlines the basic premisies of Scientology. I have the OT manuals as well – over 600 pages written by L.Ron himself.
I have read the stories from both sides, and I have nothing against the beliefs of Scientology. I’m a Christian myself, and even I have to admit that the core belief is that the Son of God was born to a virgin and 33 years later was nailed to a piece of wood and suddenly we all get to go to a magical place in the sky. Sceintologists believe that Xenu blew up a ton of aliens with hydrogen bombs and their souls infest us, causing all this pain and suffering.
The Catholic Church has committed some hideous crimes, and the Church of Scientology has as well – but keep in mind, not all Christians are Catholic, and not all Scientologists practice inside the CoS. We have nothing against the Freezoners, for example, and many of their members agree with us and have showed at our protests.
The difference? Christianity condemns these practices. Christianity will not sue it’s critics or try to destroy them. I can stand in front of the Vatican with a huge sign that says EVERY PRIEST DIDDLES LITTLE BOYS and they won’t sue me. Oh I might get decked by a few overeager people, but that’s not the point.
The Church of Scientology has a well documented history of harassing its critics through any means possible, laid down in doctrine from their own founder, and I have read these documents. The reason that nobody is taking their “bomb threat” video and crimes of Anonymous video seriously is because they have done this type of thing in the past. Operation Freakout was supposed to pin bomb threats on the Arab Embassy made by Paulette Cooper. She fought for over a decade in court before they finally settled with her, and STILL harassed her after the initial bomb threat charges had been cleared.
They also accused the BBC of making bomb threats AND organizing protests against them. That’s not a coincidence – that’s a pattern. Well documented as they do not stray from their “tech”, as has been demonstrated time and time again by anons, critics, and the general public that have actually read these teachings by LRH (and ALL of the Bridge and Scientology related documents are available online for free – and before you say that they must be fake, they have been confirmed by the CoS to be actual doctrine in various copyright suits over the years, including OT8 where it says Jesus was a pedophile!)
They also have tax exempt breaks that no other organization, religious or otherwise have, and essentially strongarmed the IRS into giving it to them with Private Investigators digging up dirt on IRS agents and filing hundreds of frivolous lawsuits. The details of that deal are still under wraps and is one of the main lobbying points for Anonymous.
Scientologists are free to believe what they want. Religion itself, no matter what you believe, is infallible as it can not be refuted or disputed. The Religious Institutions, however, are fallable and have to adapt to society and survive. The Religious Institution of the CoS is corrupt, extortive, and supressive. This is what needs to change – and if they don’t, they will fall.
Your lack of sincerity drips off of your comments like the puss of a bad infection.
I apologize for your lack of education, but anyone one who has studied even high school history at any time was introduced to the atrocities of the Nazi’s and how they were able to achieve their ends using the otherwise decent German people. You as anonymous are no different then the cowardly nazi.
Your suggestion that anyone with any knowledge of your tactics must be like you is a little over simple don’t you think. I for one abhor the cruel tactics of the liar, the deceit of the embezzler and the immoral cry of the unjust, who for their own perverted reasons call for the death of anyone who seeks truth and their own way of life.
You as anonymous have already tried (and failed)to destroy other groups. You are not unique to Scientology. You are well documented by law enforcement and your time is just about up. Your legion of underaged fanitcs have prom night ahead and probably wont be able to carry the croded banner of hate you have so carefully molded.
Probably the most discussing aspect of your being is that you so willing override these young peoples sense of ethics by creating a bigoted atmosphere of hate where they are blinded by emotions that should be in truth aimed at you.
You are just a bigot. And as a bigot your lack of education is your only defense against your inherit sense of ethics. (If you ever admitted to yourself what you were actually doing even you would despise you. Just in case that went over your head.)
But I am sure these words are as waisted on you as they were on the nazi.
What anonymous is doing is pointing at a perceived monster.
“There’s a monster standing right behind you! We’re going to expose and destroy this monster!” Is the monster real?
Some scientologists say “There’s no monster, you’re all a bunch of bigots trying to supress my freedom to happiness.” Because that’s what they’ve been told to believe.
Some say “We don’t really talk about the monster, and neither should you.”
And some say “Yes, the monster is real, and it will destroy us if we don’t protect it.”
All are protecting the monster.
See, this isn’t about belief. If someone believes that killing someone will give them supernatural powers, that is a BELIEF, and there is nothing wrong with that. If someone actually kills someone to get supernatural powers, that is a CRIME. That is wrong. See the difference?
This isn’t about religion. It’s about crime. It’s about coverups. And people need to know it’s wrong. Personally, I’d love to see the corporation of Scientology clean up it’s act, and start acting like a religion and less like a mafia organization. Because I can see the monster with my own eyes.
Everyone is protecting it, rather than getting rid of it.
Nipsy Russell asks, why bother? Nipsy, you used the word CULT in your post. If you said this in public, if you say anything bad, you will be stalked and harassed.
Why not go after the mafia? This is a mafia. A rich and powerful one. Except everyone knows the mafia is bad. The general public does not know about this. All the general public knows is how crazy Tom Cruise is. And that, is sad. They haven’t seen the monster.
Scientology says that Fair Game doesn’t exist. So, why are there PIs stalking people for saying exactly what you just said?
http://www.privatedicks.org/
But that link isn’t very good because it only has a small handful of documented events. That site is just a drop in the bucket.
But, since you are masking your name to say what you want to say, aren’t you anonymous too? Congrats. Keep speaking your mind, and some day, this church may fair game you. Which is more important for you? Speaking your mind, or being told what you should and should not say?
Scientologists like to bring up Mormons, and their secretive behaviors. I for one doubt that I would be stalked or harassed for speaking up against any crimes that mormons have committed.
Where’s the proof that they run prison camps? Ex-scientologists who have been at this base tell their stories.
This video doesn’t prove much except a creepy building. But combined with stories of those who were there, the slavish labor used to build it, it’s chilling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEnMTXVw33A
Scientologists will not turn on their own outside of the church. Civil matters are handled internally. Legal matters are supposed to be handled within the law, but they are also handled internally. Why? Knowledge Reports. KRs. You are encouraged to file a report about ANYONE who may cause harm to the church. You are encouraged to confess everything about yourself to the church. If you go against this policy, you will be punished, in the form of being expelled and declared an SP, RPF, or for lighter offenses you will pay for more auditing until you get better.
This is why you don’t see more government intervention. They will not turn on their own. They will be trained on how to handle any investigators.
To any sceintologists reading, please answer this question. Let’s pretend I was lying and spreading rumors. If you were to question what I just said, to find out if they were true, what would happen to you?
Or are you protecting the monster? Or are you scared of the monster? Or do you deny it without looking behind you? Or with a montain of evidence that is quick to be denied, do you deny that the monster even exists?
Or will you answer my question with the usual “look the other way” and ad hominem tactics that you paid for in your communication classes?
Terryeo here, disregard what I said, I forgot to take my schitzo pills.
Scientology is cool
I love being a part of it.
Those anonymous people are simply a bunch of Dills with nothing better to do and just jumping on the bandwagon!
Scientology is an organization, So what!
Scientology Rocks and you all just dont know what you are missing out on.
John John John,
Why do you and all other Scientologists play the Nazi/Bigot card so cavalierly? It makes you all sound like raving loons rather than people truly concerned about your beliefs. Why do you attack rather than defend? Your most ethical organization on earth has proven time and time again that you will say anything to KSW.
Since this is Mt. View, according to Tommy Gorman, I’m missing out on having my future wife raped. Any mention of this will be covered up by the Mt. View center and the SF org. But, Tommy Gorman’s story is free for anyone to read.
Any future mention of this will result in having my tires slashed and a van parked outside of my home for the rest of my life.
You see, Scientology loves to INTIMIDATE their critics, because it’s what L.Ron Jackass (put that in your downstat log!) said to do. They don’t know how to clean up their act. All they know how to do is intimidate, smear and harass. Because it’s what L. Ron said to do, and that’s all they know how to do without deviating from the path.
You see, Tommy Gorman used to be the one who would pull the dirty tricks that Scientology pulls. He’s a former member. He’s a former OSA member. He know what happens to people who speak out, because he was the one commiting these acts. He admits to the dirty tricks. Why can’t the church reform and do good, rather than silence and intimidate? Because Lafayette Ronald Hubbard said so.
I do not respect the intimidation tactics. I do not respect the lies to the public. But what I do respect, is normal HUMAN beings talking to each other in a civilized manner. For example, the Billy Shehan interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQZxv1kdrvY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxrllN3cdxM
I respect the hell out of Billy! He was brave enough to stand out there. He was willing to communicate! He’s not intimidating. He’s speaking on what he believes. There was nothing NASTY about him. That’s fantastic! Now, if only the rest acted like him, this might not be happening.
Are all Scientologist evil? No! Most are quite pleasant. But there are elememts, coming from the top, that are harmful and need to be ended. And if you follow those harmful orders from the top, that makes you harmful too. Instead, you need to stand up and say “No! That’s wrong!” and try to put a stop to it yourself.
You can simply claim you were following orders, or you can think for yourself and say “No, this is wrong and I refuse to follow this order.” and you can take it a step further and report that person for issuing that order. Most people believe that. Most Scientologists believe that. But, there are things within Scientology that are wrong, and to simply dismiss them is also wrong. I’d like to believe that people are above that. I’d like to believe that a RELIGION would teach people to be above that, but time and time again, they prove that they are not. A few rotten apples are spoiling the bunch, and as a bunch of apples, it is YOUR duty to get rid of them, rather than have them spoil you.
Those rotten apples are leaking into our apples, and we are doing what we must to remove them. Let them go. We don’t want them, you don’t need them.
Oh God here we go with the Nazi script again. ok, so Anon is just like nazi’s eh? Yeah we’re putting people in gas chambers and rounding men women and children up and “disposing of them quietly”. Oops.. That’s what hubbard said about anyone who disagrees the church. And then they try to reduce Anon by saying they are uneducated. Pot..meet kettle! When I was in the church I was told that if I did my “key to Life” and “Life orientation” coarse that it would be the equivalent of a 4 year university. They accuse techers of giving kids false data so school is frowned on. Most sci tie kids I knew dropped out of school at 16 or got their GED. I never met anyone in the org who went to college. They just thought they were smart. And by the way Johnny Scientologist, change the script on the whole nazi thing. It truely makes you sound like you’ve been living on a deserted island the last 50 years. So I’m gonna have to give you a FLUNK on that one. Just change it up a little, get creative. Because it doesn’t push anyone’s buttons. To compare millions of families brutally murdered to a peaceful group of people speaking out against mind control just makes you sound like your trivializing it. I know your mad, but what would Ron do?
Analyze that video they gave you… you will find that the quality of the bomb threat video is greater than that of the one that was downloaded from you tube. the only way they could exceed the image quality was if they had the original… irrefutable proof that scientology made the bomb threat against themselves.
I like Scientology just fine the way it is, and until the government or the police intervene in any of these wild conspiracy-nut claims (murder, slave labor, brainwashing) and puts a stop to them, I will assume the stories are just more made-up internet b.s.
Don’t point me to some lame website you made yourself and say “look! look!”, point me to some real external evidence that the U.S. Justice Department takes the conspiracy theories of any of these anti-Scn fruitbats seriously (and that means RIGHT NOW, THIS YEAR, not old outdated news about Lisa McWhoever or Operation Whatever).
I predict that five years from now, the same lonely people will be parroting the same tired old scare stories about Scientology, and nothing will have come of any of it. And the Church will be bigger and stronger than ever.
Is the Church of Scientology a cult? Yes.
Are they crazy as a bag of bat guano? Quite possibly.
Do they have every right to exist? Abso-frickin-lutely.
Slackdobbs, in five years you will be telling knee-slapper stories to all your friends about how you used to be one of “them” — right up till the moment the evidence became undeniable.
I sympathize with Bernie. My brother has been a scientologist for over 25 years and lives in a scientology compound. No internet, no email, phone calls are monitored, letters are opened and read before he sees them.
About 15 years ago I asked a “deprogrammer” (one of the experts who helps families grab their kids back from cults) if he could help deprogram my brother. The deprogrammer basically said he wouldn’t get near it. For one thing, he was high up enough in the organization that they wouldn’t let him go without a fight. For another, their “fair game” tactics were so destructive that he would fear for his own personal safety.
So my brother is still there. He disconnected from me a few years ago (he didn’t call it that, but I recognize it). He wrote a long letter saying that because I didn’t believe in the truth of scientology, that I should not try to contact him – he wouldn’t receive calls or letters, since they are all intercepted and they wouldn’t be given to him. This happened after we had a long talk about some of scientology’s bizarre practices, and I shared some of what I’ve learned by reading court transcripts of the Lisa Macpherson case, Operation Snow White, and others mentioned here.
Scientology is scary and dangerous and destroys families. It’s hugely profitable because it charges so much to find out about any of its philosophies. Anonymous aren’t the terrorists – scientology is much more terrifying! And for that reason I will need to sign myself as anonymous.
“Probably the most discussing aspect of your being is that you so willing override these young peoples sense of ethics by creating a bigoted atmosphere of hate where they are blinded by emotions that should be in truth aimed at you.
You are just a bigot. And as a bigot your lack of education is your only defense against your inherit sense of ethics. (If you ever admitted to yourself what you were actually doing even you would despise you. Just in case that went over your head.)
But I am sure these words are as waisted on you as they were on the nazi.”~John
Ye gods man, do you proofread at all? You completely bypassed every critical point and resorted to the most hateful vitriol of any person who has replied here. Perhaps you are correct on that last point, however, for there seems to be little use arguing with hateful bigots. My father once told me reasoning with bigots is as fruitful as teaching a pig to dance: it frustrates you and just angers the pig. I’d hoped for reasonable dialogue, but with you sir it seems a futile endeavor and has only worsened my view of $cientology such that I must question what internal “teachings” could be producing a mentality such as yours. Well, have a good day anyway.
Nazi-ish?
As much as I appreciate a beautiful example of Godwin’s law’s in action (“As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.”), I’ll have to roll my eyes at this. Participating is civil society to protest an interest deemed to be in the benefit of a society does not make it inherently Nazi-ish. In fact, Anonymous isn’t even fighting Scientology beliefs- in fact, many of them encourage believers to go to FreeZone. Anonymous and its supporters in this cause are protesting their inherently corrupt administration and destructive policies, while calling for things such as the financial reformation (because I would want someone to step in if one day my church decided I needed to pay 10,000 dollars to hear the story of Adam and Eve) that financially cripples many of its members or if this is not achieved- a repeal on its tax exempt status since it is treating religion like a moneymaking organization, the disconnection policy that socially cripples people, and a transparent administration- because it has done nothing in the past years to warrant leniency on this subject. I can’t believe the fact that a number of nationstates have deemed Scientology a dangerous cult- and therefore no taxexempt status- is not enough proof. :/
I’m slightly amused by the “Anonymous is a cult- they use slogans and symbols!1” argument. Oh my god, using slogans and symbols in a movement to further a cause!? No way! Only cults use this. Ever. That’s why those crazy kids during the Surbian Revolution used bumpersticker slogans like “He is finished” (Okay, that might be a bastardization of it, can’t really remember at the top of my head), used symbols like a raised fist when distributing fliers. Those crazy cult kids… when their crazy conspiracy hate speeches against a corrupt government… with those crazy ideals like free elections. Lolz.
Not part of Anonymous. Issues like Operation Snow White don’t necessarily make my condemn the church, though it makes me suspicious. I don’t particularly think that the Church of Scientology kills babies and eat fluffy animals. But I’ve read enough to believe there is enough corruption in the organization to warrant public pressure and scrutiny, that will hopefully cause the corporation to reform.
An important message to this “anonymous” poster:
“I sympathize with Bernie. My brother has been a scientologist for over 25 years and lives in a scientology compound. No internet, no email, phone calls are monitored, letters are opened and read before he sees them.”
DON’T GIVE UP!!!! Please, please, please get involved with Operation Reconnect. Google it. Your voice it needed. The battle is nearly won. Thank you for your courage in posting what you did. Many people sympathize with you and wish to help you reunite with your brother. Please look into Operation Reconnect.
And please, anyone else out there who is a victim of Scientology’s disconnection policy, now is your chance! Get involved!
Scientology has been so many times convicted for its practices that it’s a truism to say it’s a criminally oriented cult.
Now there is no change: the general manager of the cult beats the cult’s highest managers (some say he even beats women).
Worse: the cult has been take hand in the bag some weeks ago, sequestrating since months in horrible conditions a 48 years french EX-scientologist called Martine Boublil.
Now that the crime is known, scientology sends some underling to get the blame, while the one to blame is the general wwide manager of the cult Miscavige, who has republished that “technique” of sequestration years after Hubbard’s death.
And who do you think is the one allowing and ordering the insane accusations of terrorism against Anonymous? The same guy. Scientology was under the nefarious spell of a guy called Hubbard. It’s now under the nefarious spell of its successor, David Miscavige. What is the purpose of that guy? Worldwide domination.
That’s at least as totalitarian than the worse past despotes, the Genghis Khan, Hitlers and Stalins.
I highly recommend anyone interested in the human rights abuses committed by the cult of Scientology visit this blog, the videos here are actually real, (unlike some of the misleading Scientology videos condemned by people who appear in them)
http://truthtopplestyranny.blogspot.com/
John, I believe your last reply just supported the two points I made. I’m not particularly interested in being your enemy, and I apologize for the way I criticized you earlier. To address some of the points you made:
“Your lack of sincerity drips off of your comments like the puss of a bad infection.”
Well if you’re addressing me, I’m sorry you feel that way. I’m doing my best to sound sincere, but I’m afraid I have no way to prove it so you’ll just have to take my word for it.
“I apologize for your lack of education, but anyone one who has studied even high school history at any time was introduced to the atrocities of the Nazi’s and how they were able to achieve their ends using the otherwise decent German people.”
Well, I am very much aware of the Nazi atrocities and know the kind of tactics they used as I did indeed study it in high school. My main point was that I personally have not read any actual Nazi propaganda manuals. In the end I think it’s really quite irrelevant.
“Your suggestion that anyone with any knowledge of your tactics must be like you is a little over simple don’t you think.”
John, I could say the very same thing to you at this point in time.
“I for one abhor the cruel tactics of the liar, the deceit of the embezzler and the immoral cry of the unjust, who for their own perverted reasons call for the death of anyone who seeks truth and their own way of life.”
Wow. This is one thing we can both agree on completely. Makes me wonder why I didn’t see you on March 15th. Jokes aside, if you are speaking the truth I’m glad to know you feel that way.
“You as anonymous have already tried (and failed)to destroy other groups.”
If you’re referring to me, I never claimed to be part of Anonymous. I’ve also never tried to destroy other groups. I’m not trying to destroy Scientology either. I’m more interested in weeding out the corruption within the organization.
“You are well documented by law enforcement and your time is just about up. Your legion of underaged fanitcs have prom night ahead and probably wont be able to carry the croded banner of hate you have so carefully molded.”
Since it seems that Anonymous is a leaderless movement composed of all different varieties of individuals, I’m sure some of them have broken laws. I’m sure that even within Scientology there are people who have broken laws. People are people and that isn’t likely to change anytime soon.
I’ve got quite a bit of time by my watch, so I’m not too worried. Doesn’t seem to be broken either.
Um … did I not just clarify that most of Anonymous is NOT underage? At the very least I’m not. I wouldn’t consider myself a fanatic either. Unless you’re talking about pie. I really like pie. I could see myself as a fanatic for pie. It’s probably more of an obsession actually … I digress. As for prom … well … I’m afraid it’s already long past for me, which means I can once again hoist my banner of um … oh dear, when did I have a carefully molded banner of hate? Did I miss something? I thought I was specifically told NOT to have a banner of hate as it would be seen as hateful. You absolutely sure about that last part? Cause I think you might be exaggerating by a bit more than a little (as in a lot).
“Probably the most discussing aspect of your being is that you so willing override these young peoples sense of ethics by creating a bigoted atmosphere of hate where they are blinded by emotions that should be in truth aimed at you.”
That’s quite the run-on sentence. If I did not already do so I would like to established that I don’t hate you or Scientology. I simply disagree with the corrupt practices of the organization. Personally I think I’m replying in a rational enough manner, that me being blinded by emotions is a rather large jump to make.
“You are just a bigot. And as a bigot your lack of education is your only defense against your inherit sense of ethics. (If you ever admitted to yourself what you were actually doing even you would despise you. Just in case that went over your head.)”
I’m sorry you feel I’m a bigot. Personally I find that rather offensive, but I can respect your opinion. Already doing a better job with typos and grammar than you (no offense but it’s true), again “lack of education” seems like it might be a hastily drawn conclusion, and I’ve already addressed both it and my “INHERENT (watch the typos) sense of ethics”. Oh and no worries, it really didn’t go over my head.
“But I am sure these words are as waisted on you as they were on the nazi.”
It is spelled “wasted” and I think you forgot to capitalize “Nazi” and make it a plural “Nazis”. That being said, I think by replying it is clear your words were not wasted. In fact, I think I took just about all that you said into consideration.
Just thought I’d offer a rebuttal to that last post you made, but I’m not really interested into turning this into a contest. It is clear you aren’t interested in treating me with any sort of respect, but I do appreciate the time you took to read my last post.
Scientology is always, inevitably worse than you thought. It was bad enough when L. Ron Hubbard was alive and insane. Now it’s even more evil.
Coming soon in 2008!!!
Operation Uh-Oh – In which Anonymous declares that the major mass media, the U.S. Government, Congress, the IRS, the FBI, the CIA, and the Department of Homeland Security are all complicit in the conspiracy to further Scientology’s goals. Anonymous will hold protest rallies outside anything and everything, demanding that the President of the United States be impeached for not seeing the OBVIOUS TRUTH about Scientology.
Operation Shoulderchip – Anonymous releases a 94-part video manifesto to YouTube in which it is declared that anyone who is not expressly on their side must now be regarded as an “Unofficial Scientologist”. This either-or nomenclature greatly simplifies things and makes it easy to see who is an enemy and who is not. Anonymous’ new slogan becomes “We are Legion. Everyone else is Contagion.”
Operation Operation – In which Anonymous decides that THEY THEMSELVES have actually been brainwashed by the OSA and tricked into forming a fake straw-man opposition to Scientology for the purposes of actually PROMOTING Scientology (who actually thrive on negative publicity as much as positive). Mass seppuku rituals of lonely college geeks in Guy Fawkes masks occur in front of Orgs worldwide.
Operation Ka-ching – The Religious Technology Center purchases “Anonymous” for an undisclosed sum and converts the remaining members to kitchen help at the Celebrity Center restaurant.
Here we are in 2008 with rampant drugs, crime, literacy levels falling, “experts” say most of us are either disfunctional and disordered, there’s a war in Iraq and we’re on a planet laden with enough warheads to blow this whole circus to bits. So unless anybody did not notice Rome is burning! So whose got any sensible solutions to these problems or are we all going stand around cackling like some pack of animals? Why don’t we open our eyes and have a look and see if Scientology can help? Or would that make too many people wrong or possibly upset vested interests who may want us depressed, illiterate or on drugs? The value of Scientology, like any other subject, is its workability and practical aplication to resolving real life problems. In this area Scientology has demonstrated its efficacy in tackling serious issues of drug abuse, illiteracy, criminal rehabilitation and other serious social issues. The statistics, testimonies and campiagns of the Church are there in abundance for any rational person to see. So here we have Scientology and Scientologists who are deicated to help – helping themselves and others to improve conditions in life. On the other side of the fence we have “anonymous” a bunch of people who protest against this activity of helping. At the end of the day it does comes down to the subject of help. Does Scientology offer anything to help? If it does and it can help on the issues I have listed, it would be an “antisocial” act to not use it or to try and “scare moger” about it in ignorance or because of some false information. Thus it is imperative that anybody properly inform themselves about Scientology, its beliefs, practices and results before one can decide whether they should attack it or not. To attack a church or group and not honestly appraise oneself on the subject, would be acting in an “antisocial” and prejudicial manner.
Once again, Brendan we’re not attacking the church or the group, but the corrupt and immoral practices that are very much on record and factual. This is not acting in an “antisocial” or prejudicial manner, this is helping them to improve their own conditions in life. Anonymous doesn’t protest helping, it is protesting the immoral and corrupt actions that don’t help.
To anyone (slackdobbs) who wants current proof on the CoS’ corruption, I would like to point out that the US had no Definitive Proof of concentration camps in Nazi Germany until the war was near its end.
(Since Godwin’s law is already out on the table, might as well run with it.)
Why do the people defending scientology sound so much nastier than the people posting information about it?
Is that how scientologists like to represent their church?
Well Katie, since the Scientologists are the ones whose beliefs are being unfairly insulted and attacked by computer hackers, dumb know-nothing kids and masked vigilantes, I think they kind of have a right to sound nasty, testy and irritable! Especially when the people “posting information”, as you so spinfully put it, are posting lies, rumors, gossip, scare stories, and just plain garbage.
And “Mr. Smith II”, your analogy isn’t an analogy. The US didn’t enter the war over rumors of concentration camps, the US entered the war because the Nazis were bombing Europe into oblivion. That’s the sort of blatant, absolute proof that the Scientology attackers are lacking.
Prince Mishkin, I am not a “computer hacker, dumb know-nothing kid or and masked vigilante” and what I posted was not “lies, rumors, gossip, scare stories, and just plain garbage.”
I was shocked that a deprogrammer was so scared of Scientology’s revenge that he felt it impossible to extract someone high up in the organization. And I’m saddened that my brother is not allowed to shave contact with me.
I have noticed that the protesters are not arguing against Scientology’s beliefs. We are arguing against the destructive and damaging methods they use to coerce followers and intimidate opponents.
Brenden,
The world is not that doom and gloom. Are their problems? Of coarse. But there are some amazing things in this world to love and enjoy. It makes me wonder why people inside the church think the outside world is all going to hell and falling apart. Well, its not. Its only getting better!
Scientology does not *always* work for every person out there. That ideal is very general. I’m sure you know there are no absolutes. So Sciectology will never absolutely handle all the millions and millions of people in this big world. But what I’m trying to get at, is, if a person doesn’t want to try or apply Scientology to their lives, it does not mean they are antisocial or suppressive individuals trying to take away other peoples choice to try it. Some people tried it and wanted it to help improve their lives, and it just didn’t work for them. They tell others about their experience. That’s just life, not a covert attempt to suppress the church of scientology. Saying someone is an SP or an antisocial because they do not agree with Hubbards teachings doesn’t mean they want the public at large to be purposely depressed.
The stats that Scientology calculates are not correct. They refuse to scientificly allow a 3rd party researcher to study and report the stats of the church. In fact, they will not allow anyone come in to study and test their theories. It is usually not a normal practice to allow organizations to investigate themselves. These “stats” you are given are not solid. But that’s what the church says, so it must be believed.
Their is much the public paying Scientologists are not aware of behind the scenes in the church. Is that something you would like to know about? Is it possible for you to read some of the current news stories online regarding Scientology?
Most people are basically good, hardworking individuals who have the urge to help others. I’m sure like yourself too. But people have all kinds of opinions. And they communicate it. Why not find out what all the fuss is about? Why are there all these people online so upset? There’s got to be a reason besides just being an evil mean SP bigot. Find out more. “Use the gift of knowing how to know” from another source. It’s never wrong to KNOW!
It is impossible to have a rational discussion with an indoctrinated scientologist. They are too brainwashed and manipulated by their tech. The best way to end the continued criminality of upper management is to educate the public and prevent new “meat bodies” from being recruited. This will limit the money available to orgs, and perhaps, those left in will tire of their inability to buy food, clothes and other necessities of life. I thank Anonymous for their committment in bringing light to this dangerous cult. As I read elsewhere, where are the good works of scientology? Soup kitchens? Homeless shelters? Collecting clothing for the needy? No, for if you are homeless, mentally ill or disabled you are NOT able to become a scientologist, and if you become ill or disabled while on staff they kick you out. There can be NO defense of these actions which is why there is not one active scientologist who will explain or defend this treatment of others. Hate scientologists? No. Pity them? Yes.
The truth only hurts the people who tell the lies. Scientology does not want you to know what they tell their members…I wonder why?
Xenu dot net has lots of free information on this topic.
The truth does *not* only hurt the people who tell the lies. Just ask the Iraq war victims.
As a Mountain View resident it concerns me that Scientology continues attacking those who only want to expose the truth.
Good point, Gorlock. I’d like to retract the word “only” from my statement above.
As a long time resident I’m not happy about having the church of Scientology in my back yard. I have a friend who joined the church right after he finishing school and went to work for the church in LA. His family had no contact with him for quite a while and when they did he was not the same person. This group likes to brain wash people and turn them into robots so they can comtrol them. I have an idea since they say that they come from aliens why don’t they get back into there space ships and get the heck out of town. Also take all the crazy nuts like Tom Cruise and all his rich friends who seem to think they now everything.
@Andullyn
You are exactly right. And another thing I’ve always wanted to know about is, where are the elderly? What happens to them? No one in the church will ever answer me. Actually, are Sea Org members insured at all. So after they sacrafice their life to the COS, they are isolated somewhere to rot? Because they’re not hanging around the Celebrity Center in Hollywood, or FLAG. They would never allow someone in a wheel chair to be led in front of public paying Scientologists. I really need someone to answer this for me! Does anyone know?
Surely religions have a right to practice freely. It is no ones business what Church a person chooses to join.
Neither should anyone be coerced into contact with family members if they do not want it. I do not understand annoymous’s issue.
In fact it is Annonymous that is attacking the a constitutional right to religious freedom.
HAHAHA, this is too funny.
I wish Tom Cruise dropped by.
Planet Xenu will send aliens to track down Anon.
…wow.
Next time this happens, i am so going to record it.
I hope they protest every day!
fo103.txt;3;6
Search for Jason Beghe on Youtube.
Make up your own mind, based on the facts. The Scientologists are right, you should hear from someone who spent 14 years inside and made it to OT V.
Which Mountain View Scientologist is accused of raping Jennifer Gorman?
I’d like to make sure my wife and daugher are safe, since we live near this cult in Mountain View.
I’m not here to bash or oppose Scientology. Just to say I was involved with it for some time. The books contained very useful information. I did feel that there is a component of control and intrusiveness that I was uncomfortable with. It did not destroy my family. They helped me a lot with a Purification and some auditing. But there is a push to spend and donate money, so there is a business element involved. Other churches expect donations and synogogues expect 10% of congregants’ earnings, so I cannot fault Scientology that it needed some income to survive. I did question pushing people into classes before finishing ones they paid for. And I didn’t like my personal business constantly at issue. Overall, I thought the organization was definitely implemented and intended to help society and do good in the world. I think some of the people in charge making decisions have not all mastered the material, become “cleared” as they term it, or elevated highly up the Scientology track which is the “bridge.” I did find those who had elevated up the track were more evolved people and better communicators in general. And in fact, I did find most of the members were betters communicators than most people I encounter in the world. So for that I have to give Scientology credit. You can say anything about them, but they do improve people overall. I am only no longer affiliated with them because I don’t like being pushed up a track, to spend and donate money. Were it not for that, I would happily be affiliated with Scientology. But I wish them continued success in their goal to help the universe. And that is its sincere desire as an orgnization. They (the members of Scientology) want to help the world. Whether you or I agree with their approach is another matter.
Hi Meagan,
Good post of yours!
Scientology, Landmark Education (formerly est) and other self improvement businesses do teach worthwhile “technology” for self growth, however, most disagree with their marketing and sales.
Andrew L. Freedman (Andy)
Palo Alto
androcls@aol.com
Some also disagree with their brainwashing and thievery.
Hi Grok,
New “graduates” are encouraged to sign up their friends. And while they’re still “high” from their training, they do not see how they’re pulling a sales job (maybe with good intentions).
I’d say that many people do get something out of it.
Most of these businesses have restrictions that folks who are seeing a therapist or have a history of mental health issues will need to get a physician’s note in order to attend.
Andrew L. Freedman (Andy)
Palo Alto, androcls@aol.com